Kino Diva 400 vs Kino 4 Bank

Q

QuickSloth

Active member
Diva 400 2'
- Slightly more portable, with attached ballast
- Dimmable, but possible color shift towards magenta when dimmed?

4 Bank 2'
- On/off for each tube, less precise but no color shift
- Individual Bulbs Removable
- Slightly cheaper?

I have seen both in the field, and people swear by either one.
I try to travel light, think one skinny nerd in a Honda sedan.
What do you dvxusers think?
 
I made my own Diva 200s for less than half the price that the real Divas cost. If you are the least bit handy, they are pretty easy to fabricate and honestly work the same.

Best,

Dan
 
I have a Diva 400 and I like it a lot--especially because it can be dimmed. Don't underestimate the usefulness of a large soft light source that can be dimmed. The color shift is no big deal, you can always white balance to wherever you like. The four bank is great too, especially because you can use the tubes separately. Both are great chooices and Kino makes great lights.
 
The 4 bank is more durable I think, going to last you longer- go with that. I really don't think you'll ever need more control than individual bulbs + gels/solids+nets.

It also depends on what kind of shooting you do- if its just interview type shoots, I'd probably opt for the diva. However, the ability to have the ballast 25' away from the unit on the 4 bank can come in handy on more intricate, narrative-type productions.
 
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Diva 400s rock. Its built-in ballast saves even more hassle. I swear by 'em. Plus, Lighttools doesn't make a fabric eggcrate for traditional KinoFlos.
 
Still torn on the matter. Dilemma. Only fine point questions remain.

Do you think having the ballast on the fixture makes the Diva more top heavy for placement on a light stand?

What about the different style tubes?

$300 seems a little steep for the case, how about pelican?
Noah- 4Bank more durable? How so?

Barry- Color shift is no big deal? Can you describe your experience? Do you have to use a gel every time you dim it?
 
QuickSloth said:
Color shift is no big deal? Can you describe your experience? Do you have to use a gel every time you dim it?
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I *wish* that I had waited (saved up...) for the 4-bank Select Kino Flo's instead of buying a pair of Diva 200's earlier this year. They just don't have as nice of quality of light as the larger models. The color shift when dimming *is* a problem, for ME. I haven't had much luck in white balancing it out on any camera (DVX100 or SDX900) One time after I first bought the units, I had to keep my fingers crossed shooting an interview on the SDX900 with the Diva dimmed about 70% of the way down. All the footage was ruined with a light pink tint. It was nasty. It had to be fixed in post, but still never looked quite right. Made me look like an idiot. Never want to repeat that experience again. Other problems with the Diva's: they don't fit on my kit stands. I still need to lug around C-stands. IMHO, there isn't much point in going with the smaller fixture when you still need a set of bulky, heavy stands to go with them. The other thing is that the 2900K 55W globes really suck. They are complete crap. They always have a subtle magenta/pink tint, even at 100%, which I feel is inexcusible on a so-called "film" light. Yes, it can kind of / sort of be corrected with some plus green gel, but why? Why can't they just package it with decent lamps to begin with? I never have this problem with rented 4-bank Kino's. If you do decide to go with the Diva Lites, I highly recommend ordering the ARRI Studioline 3200K lamps. (I have NOT tried them, but I think anything would be better than the Kino lamps!). Sorry if my opinions are controversial, but they are true. One more thing. The Diva, with its unique combination of higher wattage, yet smaller lamps AND a smaller aperture, has a character of light that's pretty hard compared to the 4' 4-Bank Select. The only way I would use one today is with a large frame of 216 diffusion. However, by that point, there's barely enough light coming through to get a decent exposure with these little Diva Lite 200's. For the kind of money you're talking about here, I can't see any compelling reason to pick the Diva over the 4-bank. Hope this helps. oh and Happy Thanksgiving. :thumbsup:
 
thisiswells said:
...One time after I first bought the units, I had to keep my fingers crossed shooting an interview on the SDX900 with the Diva dimmed about 70% of the way down...
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The Kinoflo operation manual specifically says:

[FONT=Arial,Arial]"Dimming can be used to adjust the light output of the Fixture. The color temperature will shift marginally if kept to within one F stop. Dimming beyond one F stop may result in a reduction of color temperature as well as a noticeable shift to magenta". ​



The latest Diva-lite 400 (not the 200) also has a switch to go from all 4 tubes down to the 2 centre tubes only, which should reduce the need to dim more than a stop. Of course, I also think universal voltage ballasts, individual tube switches, and removable harnesses should be standard at no higher cost!

thisiswells said:
...Yes, it can kind of / sort of be corrected with some plus green gel, but why? Why can't they just package it with decent lamps to begin with? I never have this problem with rented 4-bank Kino's. If you do decide to go with the Diva Lites, I highly recommend ordering the ARRI Studioline 3200K lamps. (I have NOT tried them, but I think anything would be better than the Kino lamps!)...
Click to expand...

While I'm sure you did encounter problems, I had no problems with white balance on my DVX100A at 100% or even somewhat dimmed, although I have only used mine in anger once so far. Assume the supplied tubes were Kino Flo Trumatch ones? Perhaps the 200's are different to the 400's, although I find that unlikely. Mysterious... :undecided :beer:

Eric[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Arial]
[/FONT]
 
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My homemade Diva 200s don't dim. I have heard from several gaffers and DPs that dimming fluoros is always a bad idea anyway, even if it is supported by the instrument. So far, no issues with the Kino KF29 lamps in my homemade fixtures, even when mixing with tungsten lights.

After my experience with real Divas, my homemade Divas and the Chinese Diva 400 knockoff I have beeen using, I would go for the 2 bank or 4 bank over the Divas. I am not really crazy about the quality of light from the 55 watt Biax lamp, regardless of the fixture it is put in. If you have the room, the 48" tubes have a better light quality to my eyes.

Next will be to assemble some Barry Green style 48" 2 bank and 4 banks. Why pay $1,100.00 for the Kinos when you can make your own for about $150.00?

Dan
 
I plan to use the kino flo with sunlight, so simply white balancing the magenta out sounds like it would be a drag.

Being able to switch of two bulbs on the diva may be good enough. Seems like it would be less common to use only one bulb, and at that point I could give it some ND or use a smaller fluorescent from my kit.

I carry only one C-stand now, and not adding another one at 35lbs for my Diva sounds nice. Don't get me wrong, c-stands make the world go round, but I would like the option to go light.

What about transportation? Any difference between how you transport the Diva or 4Bank? I have seen bare 4Banks bungee corded to the inside of a grip truck, with ballasts in a milk crate. On another show, the DP kept 2 Divas per one pelican.

4Bank
-No color shift, especially important when mixing light
-No fine dimming
-Removable bulb harnesses
-More sturdy? Noah?
-Less weight on stand, use a light stand when necessary?

I am leaning towards the 4Bank now, ask again in 2hrs.
 
ericyoung said:
The Kinoflo operation manual specifically says: [FONT=Arial,Arial]"Dimming can be used to adjust the light output of the Fixture. The color temperature will shift marginally if kept to within one F stop. Dimming beyond one F stop may result in a reduction of color temperature as well as a noticeable shift to magenta".[/FONT]
Click to expand...
Hi Eric,
Thanks for your reply. I think the manual is mostly right. I noticed that it can be dimmed past 50% and the color stays good, but only for a couple of minutes. I wonder if it has something to do with the lamps being hotter that helps them retain their color attributes momentarily.

However, the problem I see is not when they are dimmed. It is when they are at 100%. For instance, when I am doing a tabletop on a white background shooting a pair of black dress shoes. Tungsten (quartz/halogen) light makes the background look pure white and the shoes pure black, as it should. Diva Lite makes the white background (and the reflection of the Diva Lite on the black shoes) look light pink with both the eyes and on tape. Explain.
ericyoung said:
While I'm sure you did encounter problems, I had no problems with white balance on my DVX100A at 100% or even somewhat dimmed, although I have only used mine in anger once so far.
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I think the SDX900 was probably set on preset white balance, so that was definitely part of the problem. Maybe subconsciously I was trying to sabotage the results. But, point of fact, these KF29 lamps do not match tungsten. They have a mired shift towards magenta, which is I feel is inappropriate in something marketed as a professional lighting instrument. The Diva's may not be excellent lights. But, I LOVE many of the other Kino Flo's, especially the 4-Bank Selects with their excellent color accuracy.
ericyoung said:
Assume the supplied tubes were Kino Flo Trumatch ones? Perhaps the 200's are different to the 400's, although I find that unlikely. Mysterious... :undecided :beer:
Click to expand...

The troublesome lamps are labeled KF29 2G11 on the side of the lamp base, in RED ink. I have gone through several of these lamps from different production runs (each pair of lamps has a unique manufacturing date) and they all have the same mired shift, even at 100%. Maybe my expectations are too high. But I followed all the instructions in the manual (such as position the unit with a slight angle, ensure proper ventilation, etc.) without any improvement.

IMHO, the fundamental issue is a problem with the lamps. They have an undesirable mired shift that does not go away with the remedies listed in the manual. I should note that I think the KF55 daylight tubes are much better as they do not have the same issues as the KF29's in terms of the mired shift (at 100%, at least). Personally, as the owner of two Diva Lite's, I see little point in paying over $500 for a professional lighting instrument that performs no better than a $30 aquarium light in terms of the color accuracy and overall performance. Respectfully,
 
I was in the same position as you. Which Kino should I get.

Since I usually work alone, which includes transporting equipment and setting up my own lighting. I went with the Diva 400.

I looked at both lights closely and found the Diva the more managable solution for my type of work. It's a just a smaller more efficent design for a one man shoot. Also it comes with a custom case that holds all of the accessories and bulbs neatly and can fit easily into a car or taxi.

The comment on the c-stand is true... but if I bought the 4bank I really wouldn't trust putting a thousand dollar light on anything less sturdy. The 4bank is a bigger light and requires more setup time. Right now I can just show up with my c-stand and the diva in the case and setup in about 2 minutes.

As for the quality of the light: at 100% it works great but you do get a wicked magenta shift as you dim down, which I don't notice on the daylight balanced bulbs. I have white balanced to the magenta shift and it fixes things, but if you are going to shoot it dimmed you should try and stick with one dim setting for the entire scene to keep things consistent. If you go back and forth you are headed for trouble.

Just having the option to dim was important for me in choosing the diva. Even though dimming is considered "ghetto" that doesn't mean its not useful, especially for video.

The other day I worked on a small webcast that my friend wanted to shoot out of his ultra-tiny Manhattan apartment. When I used the diva light even switched to 2 bulbs and diffused, the output was just too high. Obviously without space to pull back the light I had no choice but to dim it down. And I had to dim it down the whole way! But in doing so in was able to achieve the look that he wanted, and ultimatly saved the shoot.

Overall the 4bank is the more professional choice (and I wouldn't mind having one as well) but if you are a one man operation and mostly shoot video, you should seriously think about what light will make things easier for you.

-my 2 cents
 
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Is the diva really that much easier to transport? Seems like one pelican case with one 2' 4bank, ballast, and cables would work, no? I have an extra 30sec to attach the ballast on location, im not going to be using it for ENG.

Also, the 4bank doesn't have an eggcrate, though ive never seen an eggcrate on a diva in the field.

It seems like the 4bank is more expensive than the diva.
Some people have complaints about the diva, but no one seems to have any problems with the 4bank. Its just not dimmable, but it seems like the diva isn't really dimmable either due to color shift.
 
I didn't know you were talking about the 2' 4bank. In that case I think the differece is that the Diva 400 will actually output more light with its 55w bulbs as opposed to the 40w bulbs of the 2' 4bank.

I think you would have to get the 4' 4bank to have access to the newer 75w bulbs.

That may not matter to you but you should look into it.

As far as being much easier to transport, I can't answer that but, I did go to a lighting store and looked at the stuff first hand and talked to a Kino guy before I purchased the Diva. After comparing the two the Diva seemed more streamlined for a 1 person shoot.

But like I said, I wouldn't mind having both.
 
I have 2 kinos. A 2' and a 4' and recently I used a homemade unit and you are right. Why pay for the name and blah blah. Yes I know clients care, but not really about the lights. Buy a nice monitor or some better audio. forget the image and overpriced names
 
Hi Justyn:

I am planning an in-depth article on making your own video/film quality fluorescents. So far, I have crafted my own Diva 200s, bought basically a Chinese Diva 400 knockoff, adapted some Home Depot battery powered nook lights wiith Kino lamps. I still want to craft a 48" 2 bank or 4 bank. If you research it here on DVX User, Barry Green did a whole write up about how to craft 48" 2 banks from mostly Home Depot parts, although I would still use the Kino lamps with them.

Let me know if you have any specific questions.

Best,

Dan
 
Dan, I look forward to reading your article in due course. I am currently going back through all the threads in the Light section, trying to find relevant info on fluorescents. I have not arrived at Barry Green's thread yet (only 10 pages deep so far), however I found this one of Jarred's 'Zoomforce' which is a good start for me.

I would be interested to learn of some suggested cost effective fixtures for say a 4 bank, that can be purchased/adapted with doors like a kino 4 bank?

I'll keep reading for now and come back with a list of questions. I appreciate your help Dan, thanks.

EDIT: After spending a long time searching, I was unable to find the thread where Barry Green wrote about crafting a 48" 2 bank. Link please?
 
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Dan that's AWESOME> I'll send you a PM about this for sure. I personally like the 2' flos as the 4' can be kind of unwieldy and hard to manage. I do like the extra light they offer.. but are sometimes a lot to handle.


I think that there's a lighting revolution coming on. Anyone also experimenting with LEDs? I really like the vidled lights and pretty darn economical. Would be sweet if there'd be a way to get somekind of really broad big hard source LED light. Keeping the power down and the luminance up. I really love the cool running lights and I know my actors do as well. Did a shoot recently with a couple of 1ks and some small arris and it was a friggin' oven in the room.. Yuckie
 
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