de-tuning your shotgun? Dual purpose?

N

newtodvx100a

Well-known member
EDIT: should have called this tuning your wireless. That was where the problem was.


I was wondering if anyone has tried scotch tape on the rear vents of a shotgun mic? It seems if the longer the barrel and more openings makes it acheive better off axis sound rejection, so maybe you could block some or all of them at times to acheive a different pattern from the same mic (cardioid and supercardioid). Does this make sense?
 
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Sure, it makes sense. But "different" and "useful" are two very different things. Let us know how it goes!
 
I try to avoid discouraging a scientific mind... so please do your experiments.

That said, I played around with trying to change the performance of shotguns... the one conclusion I drew without question is that anything solid in really close proximity to the mic didn't yield the results that I imagined it would.

I always wondered why you couldn't make an ultra-directional shotgun with 100% side rejection by slipping it in a tube with a furry, acoustically dead interior... but I found that the desireable sounds became unusable.

The kind of thing you're talking about isn't a major experiment... if you wanted to really try some stuff then measure the diameter of that mic with a micrometer and then get some thin aluminum tube that will just barely slip over it... then you can push it up the ribs from the back and experiment in real time with the same construction as the actual mic.

At least use GAFFER'S TAPE and not scotch tape... if you haven't bought any gaffer's tape yet then you need to get a roll and see what you've been missing. Every serious video production has got a half dozen or more rolls of gaffer's laying around... and it all gets used constantly.
 
Thank you Matt

Thank you Matt

My thinking went something like this. I'm an owner of a me66, the one everyone says is not desirable. "It was a big purchase for me along with my G2 wireless."

I was thinking of taking advantage of the module design and purchase another cap, "me64". I called EVS and they didn't recommend the 64 and said it is the same as the 66 only shorter. There goes any savings advantage of a modular kit. Blocking the vents from sound vibration would in theory create the accoustics of a shorter cap. It was just a thought. I figured someone had been down that road before. I haven't worked with gaffers tape yet, thanks for the information I will order some. Does gaffers tape leave any residue? My guess is it is clean to work with. Anyway, I have to work with what I have for awhile and get some of my money's worth from it.
 
Gaffer's tape leaves NO residue... it rocks. Sticks to pretty much anything and comes off clean from pretty much anything.

I used to use vampire clips a lot for lav'ing talent... I've become fond of using gaffer's tape instead... no holes in a silk shirt and most corporate folk are a lot more comfortable with watching you tape (and explain that it's special tape which leaves nothing behind) rather then stick pins into their expensive suit.

Gaffer's tape is amazingly useful... you'll see.

As for the me64... I like that mic better then the me66... and no, they are not the same... but it's no secret that I'm not a big fan of the ME line in general... by the time you buy an me64 and me66 set you could have had an oktava hyper and a 4073a... which gives way bigger bang for the buck.

Take the cash you were going to put into an me64 cap and get an Oktava mk-012 with hyper from Sound Room (and use coupon code DV for an additional discount to make it about $165 + ship).
 
Wouldn't blocking the side vents just compromise the effectiveness of the interference tube? After all, consider the MKH816: a longer tube (ie. more vents) than the MKH416, but greater side rejection.

Without the propper venting, you just have a cardiod element inside a slender tube. The resulting phase issues will make the mic undesirable for dialogue, but quite handy for creative sound design. I seem to recall some of the Star Wars effects being achieved by sticking the mic in a long plastic tube and pointing it at the LA freeway.
 
on the side of elimination . all who make mics never come with that idea - so you can figure your self the answer
 
Thanks for the response

Thanks for the response

Here is a clip of what I tried to capture with my me66 and dvx mics. It is a visiting pastor from Africa and his wife.


http://e-motionsmedia.com/Videos/conference.mov




MattinSTL said:
Gaffer's tape leaves NO residue... it rocks. Sticks to pretty much anything and comes off clean from pretty much anything.

I used to use vampire clips a lot for lav'ing talent... I've become fond of using gaffer's tape instead... no holes in a silk shirt and most corporate folk are a lot more comfortable with watching you tape (and explain that it's special tape which leaves nothing behind) rather then stick pins into their expensive suit.

Gaffer's tape is amazingly useful... you'll see.

As for the me64... I like that mic better then the me66... and no, they are not the same... but it's no secret that I'm not a big fan of the ME line in general... by the time you buy an me64 and me66 set you could have had an oktava hyper and a 4073a... which gives way bigger bang for the buck.

Take the cash you were going to put into an me64 cap and get an Oktava mk-012 with hyper from Sound Room (and use coupon code DV for an additional discount to make it about $165 + ship).
Click to expand...
 
I'm confused... are you using the ME66 or the large diaphram condenser you mentioned in this thread? You posted the same clip in both threads. And where is the mic located? Camera mounted? or is that the M2 with a wireless behind the two singers?
 
I don't know what to make of that clip since what you're hearing is a PA speaker. It sounds okay I guess... it sounds like a good recording of a pretty low-end PA system... or is it a bad recording of a good PA system?

This is a tough recording for judging a mic within this situation. Had I been there I probably would have tried to get a board feed on one channel and mixed that with some other on-cam mic back in post. It looks like they're using those $100 Sennheiser cardioid/super-cardioids... so the sound at the board should have been fairly clean.
 
shawnmaddock, I was using the me66 which you can see in the clip if you look closely. It was pointed at the podium. The sound was actualy off of the back of the me66. I had no way to change things when the service started. I ordered the mixer and large condenser mic. Haven't received the mixer yet. The wireless is my me66 with the g2. Sorry, I didn't mean to be confusing, after this shoot I decided to get the mixer and m2 to try and inprove my sound quality.



shawnmaddock said:
I'm confused... are you using the ME66 or the large diaphram condenser you mentioned in this thread? You posted the same clip in both threads. And where is the mic located? Camera mounted? or is that the M2 with a wireless behind the two singers?
Click to expand...
 
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Matt it is a low-end pa system and there is no mixer. The mics are poor quality and the sound in the room was set too high and no mixer/sound person to adjust it. My levels were down and it was still hard at times due to the wide range of volume. It was distorted in the house sound system at high levels and the speakers was too close to the mic at times. The me66 was behind them pointed at the podium (thinking that is where the speaker would be) and I was using wireless.

My thoughts were along the same lines: if I had a mixer to run the house mics through it would clean up the sound. The PA seams to have too much bass and alittle eq might help also, along with the additional control.


MattinSTL said:
I don't know what to make of that clip since what you're hearing is a PA speaker. It sounds okay I guess... it sounds like a good recording of a pretty low-end PA system... or is it a bad recording of a good PA system?

This is a tough recording for judging a mic within this situation. Had I been there I probably would have tried to get a board feed on one channel and mixed that with some other on-cam mic back in post. It looks like they're using those $100 Sennheiser cardioid/super-cardioids... so the sound at the board should have been fairly clean.
Click to expand...
 
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update

update

I was going over my g2 wireless manuals and I think I found my distortion issue with my me66 at high sound levels. The skp 100 g2 transmitter was set to high for a self powered mic (-30 to -40). I kept thinking the clipping/distortion was the mic not handling the high db's. I'm bad!! The me66 might not be the greatest but I am determined to get the most out of what I have :-) even if it is a long learning curve for me. I guess that is one reason your wired mic will sound better than my wireless :-). Less variables to be adjusted or incorrectly adjusted. I'm learning, what can I say. I have only used the transmitter a couple of times on the shotgun.
 
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It was definitely digital distortion and not an overloaded capsule. If you open your video in a program that shows you the waveform, you can see the clipped transients pretty easily. (Digital distortion, analog distortion, and an overloaded capsule all sound completely different, but if you're not familiar with the way they sound seeing it might be the easiest way.)
 
Thank you Shawn, I saw the distortion/clipping in my sound program but don't know what the differences are between the Digital distortion, analog distortion, and an overloaded capsule can you see a difference in the wave form also?
 
Digital distortion is the only one that will have perfectly flat (clipped) peaks. It often occurs at 0dBFS, but could show up lower if the clipping occured earlier in the signal chain.

Analog distortion will show up as noise, which isn't as easy to spot in a waveform view if you don't know what you're looking at. If your sound app of choice has a spectral analysis function, you will notice the narrowband harmonics of whatever you recorded blurring into a more broadband noise.

Depending on the mic, capsule overload can take on different qualities, from sounding muted to the eq getting jacked with, but it's almost always very sudden and obvious.

If I have time I'll record some samples of each so you can both hear what they sound like and open them up in whatever sound app you're using and see what they look like.
 
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