Audio Solution..1 person crew....Music Documentary

Transmission2, are you shooting to MiniDV (SD, max. two channels audio) or HD (max 4 channels)?
I ask because I made an internal mic modification allowing 4 separate channels of audio being fed into the HVX (two from the external inputs, and two more connections where the internal mics were).
Although I agree that an external recorder is just about a must, this mod might actually be beneficial to you I think, especially if you're considering going it solo.

Here's the mod:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=70971
 
vidled...I am planning to shoot HD. I tried to view that thread you provided. Either my connection is slow, or this website is doggin a bit, regardless that's an impressive workaround you've come up with. Im not sure if I can manage something like that but I'll definitely explore it. Would I be able to send all my mics to a recorder, but then also send my most important four channels back to the camera? Is there anyway to do that? Am I talking total nonsense?? Im still trying to wrap my head around it all. Thanks for the tip!!
 
This site went down for a few minutes, so it's not your connection! ;-)

Yeah, I didn't want to further complicate your situation, just offer a possibility in getting four channels of EXTERNAL MIC audio into the HVX. As it's available, it seems a shame not to use it.
But heed the advice of the audio experts here, they do know what they are talking about.
 
ptalsky said:
There is one thing Ozduc said above that I have to disagree with. S/he said to avoid recording separately when possible. I think you will have better luck having a separate recorder in this situation. Your sound person can be further away from the action (and therefore less distracting), and the camera won't be teathered. You can use a wireless hop to the camera if you really feel you need it, but even the lower cost recorders (Marantz, Tascam, Fostex) offer far better sound capture than capturing directly into the camera.

Most of your other questions are answered above. I agree that you really do need a boomed mic in the mix. If you absolutely cannot have a boom, then get a bunch of Sanken cubs and plant them everywhere.

Good luck!

Phil
Click to expand...

One of the main reasons I said to avoid recording to a seperate medium is the issue of sync. The HVX does not have a TC in/out for jamming to an external device. It does have TC over FW as long as you are not shooting in 720PN or 30PN mode, however it is not totally reliable. Read Barry Green's post in the stickies. As for the comment about a better quality recording on an external device, I have to disagree there. If you are mixing with a good quality mixer and sending line level to the HVX, I think you would get much the same quality audio as sending it to an external recorder like you mentioned.

Although the multitrack recorder would be very handy in this situation, being that you want to have mics all over the place, I think it is going to be very difficult to do with the amount of people you have involved. Unless someone knows of a way to convert FW timecode to LTC, I guess your helper could slate every shot and clap the sticks together (and the band thinks a boom mic is distracting) so you have something to use in post later to sync up every shot with the audio. (very time consuming).
 
This may be a total naive question, but I have never really used a mixer to record anything in the field. If for instance, I have 6 channels going into the mixer, can I mix them down and send only four back to the camera? With those 6 mics being dispersed over four channels? Or do I need one for each?

Ozduc, now knowing what you've told me about this camera not having jam-syncing capabilities, I agree that trying to make all my audio record to tape is the way to go - especially because I will also be doing all the editing. Is it possible to have more than four mics while recording to four channels? Is that even possible on this camera, without doing some crazy manipulation of the built-in mics? Are there only two channels available in HD mode on the HVX200?

This is crazyiness!
 
Transmission2 said:
This may be a total naive question, but I have never really used a mixer to record anything in the field. If for instance, I have 6 channels going into the mixer, can I mix them down and send only four back to the camera? With those 6 mics being dispersed over four channels? Or do I need one for each?
Click to expand...

Alright stop already! Hire an audio person! You will not be able to accomplish this by yourself if you do not know the basics of what a mixer does. Most field mixers have 2 outputs. The camera has only 2 inputs. You can pan mics in the mixer to output on CH1 or CH2 in any combination of the six channels of input (if you have a 6 input mixer) So in other words you could have six mics but they will have to be mixed to 2 channels and sent to the camera. You could have mic 1 to ch.1 and 2,3,4,5,6 to ch.2 or mic 1 & 2 to ch.2 and 3,4,5,6 to ch.1 or mics 3,5, 6 to ch 1 & 1,2,4, to ch.2 etc. etc.

Transmission2 said:
Ozduc, now knowing what you've told me about this camera not having jam-syncing capabilities, I agree that trying to make all my audio record to tape is the way to go - especially because I will also be doing all the editing. Is it possible to have more than four mics while recording to four channels? Is that even possible on this camera, without doing some crazy manipulation of the built-in mics? Are there only two channels available in HD mode on the HVX200?

This is crazyiness!
Click to expand...

Firstly if you are going to record audio to the camera in HD you will NOT be recording to tape. This camera only records HD to P2 cards or firestore or straight to a computer. Without pulling your camera apart as Vidled has done, you will only have 2 external inputs available. The camera will still record 4 audio tracks but Ch's 3 & 4 will be the built in camera mic signal.
 
good example for broken dreams - i buy camera i make movie
sorry transmition , it doesnt work this way.
first befor you make any move you need some education about the prosses and some money to do it right since i really dont see any point teach you whithout any basic knowleg about how it works in real life .
 
ozduc said:
Alright stop already! Hire an audio person! You will not be able to accomplish this by yourself if you do not know the basics of what a mixer does.
Click to expand...

I agree with both ozduc and, of course, Oleg. You need to step back a bit here. Ideally you would want to hire an audio person, but for 2 months, 6 days a week, even at a sweetheart discount rate would come in at no less then $10,000. And that would be a huge bargin. Professional rates would be closer to $20,000 and up.

So how do you proceed and still do this within a reasonable indie budget?

For starters, I would hire a professional audio person as a consultant. We can provide varying amounts of feedback here but realistically the results of developing a game plan from posting in here is too hampered by the size, scope, and constraints of your task, combined with a lack of resources and too many cooks offering different variations on a theme (no one is giving bad advice but there are a million different approaches with varying degrees of strengths and weaknesses).

You need to get one guy (or gal) you can meet in person and discuss your needs and constraints and develop a serious, realistic game plan. Vancouver is a city that has a ton of freelance audio professionals that you could call and talk to. It won't be that hard to find one that will meet with you, develop a plan, and give you some quick tutorials.

From there, you need to buy/rent the equipment the two of you decide will get the job done to a satisfactory extent. Once you are in Portland you could probably find some university students who would be interested in helping you for a moderate day rate. This will be much easier to do if you can find a couple of students to switch off days (I realize this involves more people invading the bands "private sphere" but compromises must be made sometimes).

The biggest issue with this idea is and always will be, gear. But with enough forethought and creativity you could minimize this cost too.

For example, buy however many wireless you determine you will need (plus one more) and at the end of the 2 months you could sell them off for a slightly used price. You announce that plan in here and you will probably have DVXUsers lined up to buy a 2 month old G2 for $400. That would give you a wireless rental rate of $100 for 2 months...pretty damn good deal.

Good luck
 
wabbits post is the most realistic and clever one I've read here in a while, and I strongly suggest you go with it. Dont be disheartened by people telling you you cant do this - I happen to agree with them, and think you're way out of your depth on this one - but dont take it all the wrong way. People tend to only say things with your best interests at heart on this board, no matter how brutally honest it is.

good luck
 
I know annoucing that I have no idea how a mixer operates made me seem totaly inept, but that is not the case. Part of the reason I am here is to gather information, plan strategically, and make a movie that I'm proud of. Im not schooled in the world of sound, but Im a fast learner and have six weeks to prepare for this documentary. I have four books on order from amazon, so I'll be studying feverishly for the next little while.

My friend's father is a professional sound recordist on a bunch of big budget Hollywood films. When he gets back from holidays I am seeking his consulation and Im sure he'll be able to straighten out a few things for me.

I talked to the band yesterday about my concerns with the audio, and for a part of the doc we will most likely hire a sound person. (this makes me very happy) The doc takes place in two locations mostly, with the biggest part of it taking place in a one room studio. Im thinking in this situation I will be able to handle myself, with a couple of wireless mics and a good shotgun. For the two weeks in a bigger recording studio, I will probably hire a sound person.

Thanks wabbit for your insight. What you said makes a lot of sense.

Don't worry, Im not hurt by anyone's comments....I appreciate everyone's thoughts on the matter. This is all part of the learning process.
 
sounds like you're at least approaching this in the right way. im sure you know this, but audio is a very difficult thing to master and 6 weeks is not even 1% of the time most of the regulars on this board have spent trying to master location sound. patience and accepting that failure is often the only way to succeed in the long run are things that go hand in hand with mastering any skill, and sound is no different.
 
I know I won't come even close to scratching the service of audio knowledge, but I can only prepare myself as best I can. Im not looking for a nomination for best sound at the oscars, I just want to be able to hear everyone clearly :)

Hope I can do it.

Once I narrow down a plan, I'll post it on here for anyone that's interested. Thanks again everyone!
 
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