Framing in Camera versus on Monitor: Senior members click here at your own risk ;-)

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Spiral

Active member
Hello wise ones.....

Yes....its a newbie question. May I apologize ahead of time?

I filmed today in a make-shift sound studio for the first time with the 100b, and my framing is off; my actresses' head is cut off when hooked up to my T.V., but when played in-camera, its perfect. Is this correct? Did I make a royal mistake? Did I not set my preferences right? Is this fixable in FCP? What happened to her head? Did I behead her?

**** end freak-out mode**** :crybaby:

Ok, seriously, I have looked in search and haven't found this topic very often, or I wasn't using the right words. Can you help, please? :dankk2:
 
You're using FCP? Take a little time to read about "action safe/title safe" areas in the manual. I know, I know, no one likes to read the manual, but it's amazing the amount of information that can be gleaned from them... :thumbsup:
 
So.....

So.....

.....that means I am essentially up the creek then yes? Is there nothing that can retain my original framing?
 
I thought I went through the manual fairly thoroughly last night....apparently not. I promise you I am not lazy, I did read it, but mistakes happen.....
 
Spiral said:
.....that means I am essentially up the creek then yes? Is there nothing that can retain my original framing?
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Well, I suppose you could go into the motion tab in FCP and "shrink" the whole clip to make sure it fits within the action safe area. Just be aware that, while it will look okay on your tv, television sets vary and in some cases it will be like placing black bars on the top and bottom and sides of your clips. Also, they'll look different on computers.
 
Thanks Blaine :-)

It actually looks *wrong* on my Tv, and correct on my LCD Screen. I also just went through the DVX100 manual again, and didn't find anything on "action safe" areas, alas. Maybe time for new brain! *sigh*
 
Spiral said:
Thanks Blaine :-)

It actually looks *wrong* on my Tv, and correct on my LCD Screen. I also just went through the DVX100 manual again, and didn't find anything on "action safe" areas, alas. Maybe time for new brain! *sigh*
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Look in your FCP manual or in the help in FCP. It should explain it there. It will also tell you how to turn on your action/title safe guides in FCP so you can see where everything falls. I doubt you're going to find the information in the DVX manual...
 
You should consider posting a grab of a typical framing issue from this project. Frankly I don't feel that you have to give every character headroom in every shot.

It might not be as much a problem as you perceive it to be.
 
i had a older ( 15years) 19" TV tube TV and it cuts allot off the left side. looks fine on other TV's in house ... have you tried it on another TV ...

you could zoom out a little ( make image smaller inside 720x480 frame, or just reframe -move the image down in frame = little black at top in your NLE and computer players but not too much that you see the black on your TV ) - you'll need to experiment to see how much you can pull out/move down ...
 
Ahh (light bulb goes off!)

...I don't acutally own FCP yet, but use it at the local college, hence, never having read the manual :-)

Thanks again for your time on this matter, Blaine. Also, Donatello, I am assuming you are meaning "zoom" out when I actually get the footage captured and are working with it in FCP.

I am new to DV, but have been around film a while. I was trained in the dark ages when you placed your hands on celluliod. DV is why I came back, its just the nuances I have to get used to.

I appreciate that you have taken the time to assist.
 
yes pull/zoom out .. i don't use FCP .. in many NLE's you use the pan/crop tool and you can either zoom into frame or zoom out ( make image smaller in the 720x480 frame) or move image up/down/to side etc ...
 
Great! Thanks for the advice! I will give it a go. I am sure that there is some way it will work out. Luckily, this was not a paid gig ;-)
 
Simply thrown in some 16x9 bars on a layer above it, and reframe it. Then pat yourself on the back for being one of the "cool" people who shoot widescreen. :)
 
Hi Matt!

Thanks for your response! I am assuming your suggested procedure is done in Final Cut? If placed in widescreen, I should loose some of the framing, correct? I lost framing on both top and sides, so won't I have to compromise one or the other for widescreen?
 
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Spiral,

Here is a good article on creating your own letterboxing with/without FCP. The article is titled: Aspect Ratios and the Goodness That Comes With. It's written by Brian C. Weed, who was the Gaffer on our feature. We used this technique to letterbox our movie.

http://www.ntnmstudios.com/archives/2005_07_01_archive.html

To quote him, "Joseph called me earlier today after applying some of the widescreen crop from Final Cut to On Oak Island and noticing something peculiar. Well, a few things actually - but the one that struck a chord with me was that after applying the widescreen filter, he noticed a loss of resolution. I had been noticing such a thing recently in Parcel, but just chalked it up to the idea that I'd been looking at the picture for way too long (Lord only knows why I didn't notice when I originally applied the widescreen filter). This evening, I took off the widescreen filter in all the clips of my short, and HOLY CEMENT SHRIMP CRACKERS did it make a huge difference! Somehow, the widescreen filter causes a loss of contrast, color, and resolution. I can't believe I didn't notice before."

Getting around the loss of resolution is the main reason to do it this way.
 
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Spiral said:
Hi Matt!

Thanks for your response! I am assuming your suggested procedure is done in Final Cut? If placed in widescreen, I should loose some of the framing, correct? I lost framing on both top and sides, so won't I have to compromise one or the other for widescreen?
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Actually, I was talking something much simpler like this:




Ambush.jpg


to this:



AmbushCrop.jpg



By simply putting bars on the top layer of your NLE. No aspect ratio altering or tweaking, just god old 4:3 with bars on it.


http://www.paramm.com/ambush.psd

And there is a photoshop file with it, with the bars layer in tact and able to be saved as a 32 bit .tga or as a .psd without the background. Then apply in your NLE as is.


good luck
 
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Spiral, in 4:3 mode the LCD shows you the entire image, including what will be overscanned on TV playback. You just need to get a feel for allowing a margin around the edges so you don't clip on a TV.

In 16:9 mode on the DVX100B, it was recently pointed out that the LCD overscans 10% on every side, which is OK on the left and right, but on the top and bottom, you actually can't see what you will see on TV playback. Argh!

Either way, it just takes some experience to get the right results.
 
Have lessons, will shoot.....

Have lessons, will shoot.....

Thanks again, all. Matt, thank you for the time in posting those photos, very helpful for someone just breaking into the digital world.

That's what I loved about film; you got what you shot. However, nothing can replace the fact that the DVX footage "looks" so much like film.

I will attempt these methods to try and to salvage. Josh, "ARGH" is just about it :)

Best wishes with your future shoots, lads :thumbup: !
 
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