1080/24pA shots mysteriously converted to 24fps?

M

Mike@AF

Veteran
I've been doing post on my feature that was shot with an HVX200. We shot most of it at 1080/24pA, with some 720/24pN shots at variable framerate. The sequences were all set up at 23.98fps. I imported all the clips with 5.1.1 about 4 weeks ago. They all showed 29.97fps (except the 720p shots) because FCP didn't remove the duplicate frames properly at the time (5.1.2 does now). I used the Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine option under Tools on all the 1080/29.97fps clips and they correctly became 23.98fps. Two days ago i noticed that all of my clips were showing 24fps in the Browser and the sequences were still 23.98fps. I checked various files in Quicktime and Cinema Tools and they showed 24fps as well.

What's really odd is that almost all the clips open in Quicktime at a smaller size than their actual resolution. Finder shows the resolution of those clips as 640x360. There's a few clips that are duplicated in the Capture Scratch folder that show 1920x1080 as the dimensions. Those clips open at full size in Quicktime. I tried re-importing a P2 card into FCP with 5.1.2 and all the clips import properly at 23.98fps and show the resolution as 1280x1080 in FCP and the Finder. Any idea what happened or what's going on? Is there an easy way to re-import/replace the existing shots so they show the correct information and frame rate?

I noticed all this before 5.1.2 was released. I am now running the latest version of all Apple Pro Apps in FC Studio and Shake. I updated in the middle of the project only because I wanted to see if this would solve the issue or reveal new info, plus I'm doing color correcting and needed the Scopes bug fix. I got new info, but I'm still confused. Any help?
 
I should note that although the clips that show 640x360 in Finder don't open full size in Quicktime I can resize them to full size and tell they are actually higher resolution than 640x360. They show the correct resolution in FCP, but not in Finder and Quicktime opens as a smaller window/frame size. I was able to tell mainly because I have the same clip in the folder twice (one with a 1 at the end of the name) and sized them to the same and they look identical in sharpness. This is really strange.
 
flmmkr said:
I should note that although the clips that show 640x360 in Finder don't open full size in Quicktime I can resize them to full size and tell they are actually higher resolution than 640x360. They show the correct resolution in FCP, but not in Finder and Quicktime opens as a smaller window/frame size. I was able to tell mainly because I have the same clip in the folder twice (one with a 1 at the end of the name) and sized them to the same and they look identical in sharpness. This is really strange.
Click to expand...

HOLY CRIPES I JUST NOTICED THIS TODAY AND I'M THINKING THE SAME THING! Have you spoken with Apple Customer Service yet? Is the frame size really 640*360 or is Cinema Tools/Get Info just not speaking right?
 
I never spoke to Apple about it. I don't have the time to wait for them to figure it out so I just imported everything again. It was about 2 days of work to get everything back the way it was supposed to be. It hasn't happened again since then. I didn't use CT on any shots in my movie since the import and everything has been fine. I don't think it was caused by CT though, because everything was right after I used CT to reverse telecine and get the shots to show as 23.98.
 
flmmkr said:
I never spoke to Apple about it. I don't have the time to wait for them to figure it out so I just imported everything again. It was about 2 days of work to get everything back the way it was supposed to be. It hasn't happened again since then. I didn't use CT on any shots in my movie since the import and everything has been fine. I don't think it was caused by CT though, because everything was right after I used CT to reverse telecine and get the shots to show as 23.98.
Click to expand...

I'm going to call them this morning, as I don't have the same luxury (the batch conform is destructive apparently). I am certain that it was caused directly by Cinema Tools, as I tried to repeat every step in the process with a few test clips, and it is only after the Cinema Tools batch conform that it happens. It happens also with machines of various vintage, and different versions of FCP and Cinema Tools as well, so this has been there for a while. Kind of surprised more people haven't run into this. It must be encoding so that QT "thinks" that it's 640x360, but it's really 1280x720, which FCP sees properly.
 
How do we get this stickied?

How do we get this stickied?

flmmkr said:
I never spoke to Apple about it. I don't have the time to wait for them to figure it out so I just imported everything again. It was about 2 days of work to get everything back the way it was supposed to be. It hasn't happened again since then. I didn't use CT on any shots in my movie since the import and everything has been fine. I don't think it was caused by CT though, because everything was right after I used CT to reverse telecine and get the shots to show as 23.98.
Click to expand...

Called FCP support yesterday, and this is an error in communication between Cinema Tools and Finder - although it's not so much an error, in computer programming terms as it is just counterintuitive design. The files, as both of us have figured out, are still 1280x720, which if you open the file in QT, and go up and get info from within QT, you'll see a box that shows that, as well as the other facts that the MB's don't shrink, etc. He agreed that this is counterintuitive to a film/video production workflow, and suggested we make support suggestions via email. Upshot - the files are NOT 640x360, they ARE 1280x720. I made him fully aware that it took me three beers to calm down after thinking that my files had all shrunk, and he apologized. With more and more people working with HD files, people ARE going to NOW come across this problem, which is why this should be stickied in some way.
 
In FCP, in the FCP menu, there's an option that takes you directly to the FCP Feedback Page at Apple. I am always urging end users to take advantage of this, often! This feedback page is where Apple decides what users want them to do with FCP updates.
 
It's more of an issue than just Finder showing the wrong resolution. All the clips in my project were converted from 23.98fps to 24fps. They need to fix the issue, plain and simple. I can't believe they've been aware of the problem and have done nothing to resolve it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top