Rap Music and decline of real music

[FlintMI]

Yeah, I mean, I group hip-hop and rap together... buncha dudes ryhming words to a stolen ripped off beat (One sounded like an old Depeche Mode song) and they (hip-hop artists) just speak the ryhms, they don't even sing man.

That's a pretty broad generalization of a genre that is now over 30 years old.

Good artists borrow, great artists steal. rogar-BigGrin(DBG)


Hip Hop=an urban, inner city culture of mostly Black and Puerto Rican youths comprised of 4 elements

1. DJ'ing (Art of mixing records)
2. MC'ing (Rapping or toasting)
3. Graf or bombing (Graffiti)
4. B-boying (Breakdancing)


Another good quote: "Rap is something you do, hip hop is something you live." - KRS 1 of Boogie Down Productions

 

[FlintMI]

correction

correction

The 90's ushered in Nirvana who I liked, (but I can't stand Pearl Jam). Cobain's incoherent rambling were fun to try to unravel to figure out what the heck he was was talking about. I actually found one song was about Courtney Love (Frances Farmer will have her Revenge on Seattle) which I discovered after watching a doc on Kurt and Courtney and findng out her name was Frances Farmer. -Nate

Frances Farmer was an actress from Seattle who had a mental breakdown and was locked up in a mental ward. Kurt felt her treatment was unjust and wrote a song about her.

It had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with Courtney Love.

Let's get our facts straight folks. :dankk2:

 

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

Clearly proving once more that Blue is Mosdef inetly a cool ice breaker at parties. (I stayed on topic didn't I?)

You are an WRONG!!!!!!!!

Blue is one of the colors of a bruise.

Blue is the color of sad. It therefore CLEARLY SUCKS!

People that like blue make the Baby Jesus cry! :crybaby:

How you can like the color blue is beyond me!
:furious3:
:badputer:
:nads:
:kali:

 

[Nathyn]

Yeah, I mean, I group hip-hop and rap together... buncha dudes ryhming words to a stolen ripped off beat

You mean the stolen or "ripped off" beats they pay all that money for. Elvis never paid a dime for the whole songs (not beats) he stole. While this wasn't all his fault it's still theft. You have to understand rap originated in clubs, where popular songs were spun and (just the music) and an MC spit freestyle lyrics over them.

(One sounded like an old Depeche Mode song) and they (hip-hop artists) just speak the ryhms, they don't even sing man.

That's because it probably was Depeche's music but again Depeche Mode probably got good money from it. A lot of Phil Collin's tracks winds up in stuff and he actually sings on a track with with Bone Thugs in Harmony. (Yes for whatever reason Phil is popular with hip-hoppers and so is Sting and a lot of early rockers).

But let me ask you this, when Aerosmith did the original "Walk this Way" no one complained, but what they were doing sounds exactly like what many would call rock hop. (Listen to the song, it wasn't really sing). Why do you think this worked out so well for Run DMC and Aerosmith both. Aerosmith to this day credit Run DMC for reviving their careers at a time when it was honestly in the toilet. When Blondie rapped, no one said "it wasn't music." Hm. I wonder why?

Honestly many people have a problem with rap because of it's origins. I dare most people who criticize it as an musical form to actually do it. Anyone can rhyme words but everyone isn't good at it nor does it mean anything. You don't understand what you're listening to so to you it's just rhyming words. Dissect these lyrics and tell me then it's just some guys rhyming:

I'm countin' down to the day deservin'
Fittin' for a king
I'm waitin' for the time when I can
Get to Arizona
'Cause my money's spent on
The goddamn rent
Neither party is mine not the
Jackass or the elephant
20.000 nig niggy nigas in the corner
Of the cell block but they come
From California
Population none in the desert and sun
Wit' a gun cracker
Runnin' things under his thumb
Starin' hard at the postcards
Isn't it odd and unique?
Seein' people smile wild in the heat
120 degree
'Cause I wanna be free
What's a smilin' fact
When the whole state's racist

"By the time I get to Arizona"
-Public Enemy

Give your take on what this is saying and why it's not as important as any rock song or maybe Britney Spear's "Hit me Baby One More Time". The answer is because it speaks to a certain group of people many have written off, even if not conciously.

I wish more brothers would go back to rock 'n roll. I still prefer listenig to Jimi Hendrix or even Lenny Kravitz over anything hip hop is producing right now.

MTV can only take so much. It will be awhile before black rock emerges again, but only a short time before MTV grabs a hold of it and super commercializes the genre. Actually rock is on a comeback (not black rock but rock in general). AFI is pretty hot right now and "American Idiot" blasted up the chart when it dropped and was being played all over the place. Jack Johnson sounds pretty good on the light rock side. I miss Creed.

-Nate

 

[Blaine]

Give your take on what this is saying and why it's not as important as any rock song or maybe Britney Spear's "Hit me Baby One More Time". The answer is because it speaks to a certain group of people many have written off, even if not conciously.

-Nate

Nate, oh, Nate. I am certainly not a fan of rap or hip hop. In my case it's probably as much generational as anything...that's my story and I'm stickin' to it. But to compare rap and hip hop to Britney Spears? I think you're doing yourself a disservice. Does anybody take that Pop Tart seriously?

Now take your rap and hip hop and put it up against Smokey Robinson, Jimi Hendrix, Buddy Guy, Robert Cray, Joan Armatrading, Tracy Chapman, John Lee Hooker and of course, the real king of Rock'n'Roll, Chuck Berry and tell me WHAT HAPPENED? :shocked:

 

[Nathyn]

Frances Farmer was an actress from Seattle who had a mental breakdown and was locked up in a mental ward. Kurt felt her treatment was unjust and wrote a song about her.

It had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with Courtney Love.

Let's get our facts straight folks. :dankk2:

I stand corrected, for some reason I've always thought Frances Farmer was part of Courtney's name but Frances is their daughter. Although there is still question as to did they name the daughter after Frances Farmer or after Frances Kelly from the The Vaselines.

And if a hot vengeful chick comes back as fire, to burn all the liars, leaving a blanket of ash on the ground would you want to be around to see it?

Nate, oh, Nate. I am certainly not a fan of rap or hip hop. In my case it's probably as much generational as anything...that's my story and I'm stickin' to it. But to compare rap and hip hop to Britney Spears? I think you're doing yourself a disservice. Does anybody take that Pop Tart seriously?

I was being facetious. The point was the lyrics actually meant something to those they are addressing. Again keep in mind this was before the reign of booty shaking and bling blinging.

Now take your rap and hip hop and put it up against Smokey Robinson, Jimi Hendrix, Buddy Guy, Robert Cray, Joan Armatrading, Tracy Chapman, John Lee Hooker and of course, the real king of Rock'n'Roll, Chuck Berry and tell me WHAT HAPPENED? :shocked:

Nothing. You can't compare forms of music together to prove one isn't as good as another. You listed people from various genres of music, rap is simply a genre of music. Why does it have to be better or worse. Why can't it simply exist. You're problem is the same is mine. Hip-hop has taken over and it what people are listening to so it's what's being packaged and sold. And by the way you must have obviously not heard the "Fugees" or "PM Dawn" nor "Common".

By the way Elvis also not only stole music but moves, Blaine mentions Chuck Barry whom Elvis did snatch on stage moves from. Many R&B guys openly steal from Michael Jackson but during Elvis' time the people in power didn't want to give black people their props. Unlike Vanilla Ice, and Emeniem and other white rappers, white rock artist back in the day simply stole and from black people and because of the way society was at that time no one said anything.

-Nate

 

[FlintMI]

Dissect these lyrics and tell me then it's just some guys rhyming:

'Cause my money's spent on
The goddamn rent
Starin' hard at the postcards
Isn't it odd and unique?
Seein' people smile wild in the heat
120 degree
'Cause I wanna be free
What's a smilin' face
When the whole state's racist
"By the time I get to Arizona"
-Public Enemy

Public Enemy number one! you got that right nate dog. I would have dropped "Black Steel In The Hour Of Chaos" on 'em but that'll do. :love4:

 

[Nathyn]

Public Enemy number one! you got that right nate dog. I would have dropped "Black Steel In The Hour Of Chaos" on 'em but that'll do. :love4:

The media surely doesn't want you to hear this kind of rap anymore. People say it's about money, I don't think so. PE moved albums. The overkill of meaningless rap is intentional, do not be fooled. I took classes in media management and advertising. Nothing you see on television is there without reason. There's a reason Fefe Dobson will not get hard MTV time but I bet we'll be seeing more of K-Fed whether he's excepted as a rapper or not.

It's not art imitating life anymore, it's "art" selling a lifestyle to people to help them destroy themselves while corporate America profits from it. For every "Fight the Power" or "Jesus Walks" there's a hundred bling bling songs and pointless songs featuring meaningless sex, drugs and the "get rich or die trying" attitude. And since most people don't listen to the lyrics (take a look at 3-6 mafia's lyrics particularly when they were the "Triple Six Mafia") many times people really don't know the full effect of what they're being hit with.

-Nate

 

[FlintMI]

It's not art imitating life anymore, it's "art" selling a lifestyle to people to help them destroy themselves while corporate America profits from it. For every "Fight the Power" or "Jesus Walks" there's a hundred bling bling songs and pointless songs featuring meaningless sex, drugs and the "get rich or die trying" attitude. And since most people don't listen to the lyrics (take a look at 3-6 mafia's lyrics particularly when they were the "Triple Six Mafia") many times people really don't know the full effect of what they're being hit with.
-Nate

100% true! Have you watched the N-word? Watch that doc. :love4:

The best rap concert in recent history was Chappelle's Block Party. That was soooo amazing. Love Dead Prez!

 

[Nathyn]

100% true! Have you watched the N-word? Watch that doc. :love4:

The best rap concert in recent history was Chappelle's Block Party. That was soooo amazing. Love Dead Prez!

OMG! I just saw that last night with some friends. That was wild! I'll look out for the "N-Word". I see it's listed on Amazon.com.

-Nate

 

[LukeJ]

I understand hating Kfed but let's all look deep within ourselves. Let's pretend we grew up in Trailertown USA. Mom's gotta be addicted to something and Dad could be one of three guys. Pretend you've got looks, and a few moves, so where are you going to go? Effin LA that's where! Why would you continue to pound the trailer girls when you could pound girls from LA? Sure you've empregnated up to three women but in your mind that's all the more reason to get out of Dodge.

Now you're in LA and you're poor and trying out for emberrassing gigs and the apt. you share with four other guys stinks.

One night you go out to a club and while you're pissing in the community unrinal the guy next to you says that Brittney Spears just came in the Bar. Your heart speeds up and you get that feeling in your stomache like you're on a rollercoaster. You were fifteen when "Hit Me Baby One More Time" played hourly on TRL.

You zip up and walk to the mirror. You fill your cupped hands with cold water and bury your face in them. When you emerge you see yourself in the mirror and are given confidence by just how good looking you are, plus you've drinken four KettleMonsters and smoked a little somtin somtin out in the car so things are feeling good. You're keitel in Mean Streets when he dances with the stripper.

Emerging from the bathroom you hold your head high but you don't look for her because you know that would be the wrong move. Everybody is looking for her, what you want to do is look AWAY from her, and you do. You grab some silly little skank on the way to the dance floor and show everybody the moves you've been perfecting dating back to the days in your Tennesse basement mimiciking Hammer. And you know you're on. Everybody knows when they're on.

And then you realize that Brittney is on the floor because of the commotion that she causes. But you don't turn to look, instead you give all the attention in the world to the wounded bird that you snagged on the way to the dance floor.

Now Brittney is making it obvious that she wants your attention. She' s probably like making out with other chicks or maybe just pulling her skirt up and bending away from you.

As soon as you're sure that it's on, you give her your full attention. You look her in the eye to make HER look away, something she's not accustomed to.

Now the two of you are doing the Humpty Dump and she decides it's time to get out of there. She grabs your hand and suddenly you're being escorted by some huge black bodyguards. Flashes of light and you enter the nicest limo you've ever seen. Look to your right and Kirsten Dunst is making out with Taye Diggs. To your left is Lindsey Lohan in a four-way.

But Brittney wants to talk. You see, she effed the last ten guys she met at bars so she's decided that she wants to get to know you. She starts telling you about things like how she believes in time travel and how all she really wants to do is raise kids and chickens somewhere.

Now your faces are inches apart. She's still cute, no matter what anybody says....plus she's worth somewhere around 500 milliion.

So what are you going to do? You gonna turn her down? Get real. We all do the best with the hands we're dealt. The bible says, "Judge not, lest ye be juged" and I like that. Kfed is just a product of his upraising and we'd all problably make exactly the same choices that he's made, given his circumstances.

Sorry this was so long. Jones.

 

[J.R. Hudson]

LOL

Great POST !

BRavo !!

 

[Nathyn]

I'd marry Britney and give her cameos in a bunch of movies shot on the DVX (hell with her money I could afford and HVX and a Mac Book Pro).

-Nate

 

[Blaine]

I'd marry Britne

Once you've had a look behind the curtain, it's never the same.

 

[FlintMI]

Take the high road, it's much nicer up here

Take the high road, it's much nicer up here

So what are you going to do? You gonna turn her down? Get real. We all do the best with the hands we're dealt. The bible says, "Judge not, lest ye be juged" and I like that. Kfed is just a product of his upraising and we'd all problably make exactly the same choices that he's made, given his circumstances. Sorry this was so long. Jones.

I'd turn her down in an instant.

Since when is selling out noble?
When is marrying for money love?

We've seen where that gets you. C'mon.

I've dated my share of millionaire trust fund babies in NYC, with their car services and their weekends in the Hamptons. They all want to get married tomorrow to show off to their friends. It's actually quite easy to turn them down again and again. My typical line is "You're a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there."

You see, you have to have something called self-respect.

And who wouldn't want to take the easy way out and have a sugar baby pay for my filmmaking hobby? Or have that house on Long Island? Or fly first class places? Sure would be nice.

I was born and raised in a auto factory shithole town where most of my elementary school friends are now dead, in prison, or working for $8 bucks an hour. When we graduated high school, Roger & Me had just come out. Trying finding some hope in for your future with that staring down at you. My family didn't have a dime.

But I found a way. I earned my own way. I took out loans and went to school. I got out and got a good job. I wrote and got grants. I held fundraisers. I pitched and pitched some more. I work hard and owe nothing to nobody.

This guy and guys like him can sell out and thus buy and have whatever they want, except one thing.

Self-worth.

They'll never have it. Few do.

 

[Isaac_Brody]

I'd turn her down in an instant.

Since when is selling out noble?
When is marrying for money love?

We've seen where that gets you. C'mon.

I've dated my share of millionaire trust fund babies in NYC, with their car services and their weekends in the Hamptons. They all want to get married tomorrow to show off to their friends. It's actually quite easy to turn them down again and again. My typical line is "You're a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there."

You see, you have to have something called self-respect.

And who wouldn't want to take the easy way out and have a sugar baby pay for my filmmaking hobby? Or have that house on Long Island? Or fly first class places? Sure would be nice.

I was born and raised in a auto factory shi*hole town where most of my elementary school friends are now dead, in prison, or working for $8 bucks an hour. When we graduated high school, Roger & Me had just come out. Trying finding some hope in for your future with that staring down at you. My family didn't have a dime.

But I found a way. I earned my own way. I took out loans and went to school. I got out and got a good job. I wrote and got grants. I held fundraisers. I pitched and pitched some more. I work hard and owe nothing to nobody.

This guy and guys like him can sell out and thus buy and have whatever they want, except one thing.

Self-worth.

They'll never have it. Few do.

Word. :costumed-smiley-047

 

[Mark Harris]

Some major ****...

Dude, that's like a Chocolate Jackson speech....

 

[Greggl]

Hehe.. there is a point where too much work ethic gets in the way... this is coming
from your cheezehead neighbor that went to the other coast

Exchange Brittany for Scarlett or if she gves Mars the curb, Sophia Coppola and
you'd be in the same position.

Hell, Guy Ritchie is now *less* of a director, post Madonna... whouda thunk that?

 

[FlintMI]

Now take your rap and hip hop and put it up against Smokey Robinson, Jimi Hendrix, Buddy Guy, Robert Cray, Joan Armatrading, Tracy Chapman, John Lee Hooker and of course, the real king of Rock'n'Roll, Chuck Berry and tell me WHAT HAPPENED? :shocked:

wow! some real insight! the real King of Rock and Roll is in fact Chuck Berry (actually more of a trifecta with Little Richard and Ike Turner).

thank god they put Chuck's music on Voyager as "Sounds of Earth." Imagine if it would have been The Partridge Family, we'd be invaded by hostile aliens by now! rogar-Evil(DBG):

BTW, the direct line from the artists you mention to today are artists like Boogie Down Productions, Public Enemy, Common, Rakim, Gang Starr, Nas, Arrested Development, etc. all of whom are modern poets with some pretty damn tight production and definately carry the torch. As Nate said, their message has been lost. It's there if you look (and listen).

 

[GlimmerGhost]

Props to you LukeJ for a tale that kept me captured... funny as hell man!

I'd turn her down in an instant.

I was born and raised in a auto factory shi*hole town where most of my elementary school friends are now dead, in prison, or working for $8 bucks an hour. When we graduated high school, Roger & Me had just come out. Trying finding some hope in for your future with that staring down at you. My family didn't have a dime.

But I found a way. I earned my own way. I took out loans and went to school. I got out and got a good job. I wrote and got grants. I held fundraisers. I pitched and pitched some more. I work hard and owe nothing to nobody.

This guy and guys like him can sell out and thus buy and have whatever they want, except one thing.

Self-worth.

They'll never have it. Few do.

FlintMI, there are too many stories like ours out there, a majority within the minority. Success through hard work, and caring that much more for everything because you know the value of the buck. They have a beautiful family, a nice house and good income. But you work for somebody don't you?
What? You have your own company? Which can be made and crushed by it's clientel, steady one year and declining the next. So everything... everything can still be taken away with one wrong move.

Then there are the Lex Luthors that want to own the whole farm. They sleep with some rich bimbos, make some moves that some would call "selling out" and others would call "Pimping & hustling" and they make their first to last million. Which both Iacoca and Trump say is the gateway, once the first mil is gotten, you should never forget how to make one again.

And now your videoagraphy company is under contract by Lex, and you begin to understand that you really aren't Superman... that you will die someday, that self worth is one thing and knowing your worth more than anyone is something else - regardless of what little, insignificant things you have to do to get there. And that those that did it will be remembered and valued in some form or fashion (good or bad), and those of us that are too proud will be the ones remembering in some form or fashion (this thread for example) until we ourselves are forgotten.

Don't let yourself be persuaded to think like movieland, the bad guy dosn't always get his in the end... he lives in a Penthouse rocking a Manage Trois and taking weekly trips to tan in Barbados with his pet Platypus or other unique animal that we will die without ever having seen.

Just remember, because of your self worth, you didnt get to see a real life platypus.