J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
My opinion was on Spike (Not the documentary) :nads::nads::nads::nads::nads::nads::nads::nads::nads:
When the levees broke...
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Wow,
Has a single poster in this thread actually seen the documentary? I watched all four acts last Monday and Tuesday, so I'm going to chime in on this embarrassing thread.
On spin and conjecture...
You've all done vastly more damaging character assassination within this thread than Spike did in any of the four hours of the Levees documentary. In fact, much to my surprise, he largely let the people of NO do the talking without writing or coloring too much between the lines.
I expected to see W get lambasted throughout four hours of the show - instead the larger FEMA entity and the Army Corps. of Engineers came out of it with the stink. Even Michael Brown almost looked okay when all was said and done - despite the vilification he received while his career came unraveled.
On explosions...
Lee went way out of his way to show that a Mississippi-class barge which had broken from its mooring subsequently slammed into a concrete levee wall at a good clip - very close to where residents reported the explosion sounds. Countering the conspiracy theorists were residents, engineers and officials who used their own words to convincingly explain what might have actually happened.
Additionally, Mr. Lee goes back in time to 1927 when the government did blow levees to flood poor areas to save the wealthier neighborhoods. It so happened that those areas in 1927 were almost wholly white in demographic. This is driven home in the piece.
As was stated earlier, even if you don't buy into this particular nefarious plot, don't believe for a second that we don't live under a government who would use its citizens as lab rats if they could continue to get away with it.
What JDS said [about explosions] above is yet another explanation that was not explored in the film.
If anything, I think this was the work of a filmmaker who stayed very objective despite the fact that there are still corpses uncollected, monies not distributed and bureaucracy further stagnating and contaminating what used to be New Orleans.
Spike is a good documentarian - you do not hear his voice in the piece - there is only the narration of the citizens of the Gulf Coast.
All of this said, I felt like I learned nothing new through the documentary. Perhaps CNN (thanks largely to my man A. Cooper) actually got one story right last year, and we have heard a fair, balanced and full reporting. If anything, I left surprised that Spike hadn't put more of a mark on it or uncovered something truly devastating that we'd not heard before.
The piece exposes all the players from top to bottom as optimists, bunglers and, to varying degrees, people who spin and manipulate to save their skin or gain that all-important footing toward power. The real losers in this are those who are dead, the ones they left behind and the folks who can't seem to find their way home.
Go watch this before you comment on Spike Lee's effort here.
e
Has a single poster in this thread actually seen the documentary? I watched all four acts last Monday and Tuesday, so I'm going to chime in on this embarrassing thread.
On spin and conjecture...
You've all done vastly more damaging character assassination within this thread than Spike did in any of the four hours of the Levees documentary. In fact, much to my surprise, he largely let the people of NO do the talking without writing or coloring too much between the lines.
I expected to see W get lambasted throughout four hours of the show - instead the larger FEMA entity and the Army Corps. of Engineers came out of it with the stink. Even Michael Brown almost looked okay when all was said and done - despite the vilification he received while his career came unraveled.
On explosions...
Lee went way out of his way to show that a Mississippi-class barge which had broken from its mooring subsequently slammed into a concrete levee wall at a good clip - very close to where residents reported the explosion sounds. Countering the conspiracy theorists were residents, engineers and officials who used their own words to convincingly explain what might have actually happened.
Additionally, Mr. Lee goes back in time to 1927 when the government did blow levees to flood poor areas to save the wealthier neighborhoods. It so happened that those areas in 1927 were almost wholly white in demographic. This is driven home in the piece.
As was stated earlier, even if you don't buy into this particular nefarious plot, don't believe for a second that we don't live under a government who would use its citizens as lab rats if they could continue to get away with it.
What JDS said [about explosions] above is yet another explanation that was not explored in the film.
If anything, I think this was the work of a filmmaker who stayed very objective despite the fact that there are still corpses uncollected, monies not distributed and bureaucracy further stagnating and contaminating what used to be New Orleans.
Spike is a good documentarian - you do not hear his voice in the piece - there is only the narration of the citizens of the Gulf Coast.
All of this said, I felt like I learned nothing new through the documentary. Perhaps CNN (thanks largely to my man A. Cooper) actually got one story right last year, and we have heard a fair, balanced and full reporting. If anything, I left surprised that Spike hadn't put more of a mark on it or uncovered something truly devastating that we'd not heard before.
The piece exposes all the players from top to bottom as optimists, bunglers and, to varying degrees, people who spin and manipulate to save their skin or gain that all-important footing toward power. The real losers in this are those who are dead, the ones they left behind and the folks who can't seem to find their way home.
Go watch this before you comment on Spike Lee's effort here.
e
"'For all of you guys calling Spike "racist", "reverse racist", and "race crusader" can you please enlighten me and point me towards a quote or something that the man did that was undeniably outright racist.'"
jkc123,
Yeah, it just didn't happen. If anything, he portrayed the city of New Orleans as one victim - it's citizens of every race and creed suffering under a larger inept government. Poverty was, and continues to be, the sorting criteria for who suffers the most.
His sword fell evenly across the Army Corp. of Engineers, the Mayor's and Governor's office and, finally, almost fleetingly, the highest office in the land and those who serve immediately at his pleasure.
e
jkc123,
Yeah, it just didn't happen. If anything, he portrayed the city of New Orleans as one victim - it's citizens of every race and creed suffering under a larger inept government. Poverty was, and continues to be, the sorting criteria for who suffers the most.
His sword fell evenly across the Army Corp. of Engineers, the Mayor's and Governor's office and, finally, almost fleetingly, the highest office in the land and those who serve immediately at his pleasure.
e
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
Hey Eric!
Ill clarify immediately and say that my takes are based on NOT SEEING IT and in speculation. A couple times, I have made it a point to ask 'How much of the conspiracy' is in it, we don't know.'
To further be redundant, my comments are in the world of this thread and the subject of that topic within this thread,
I'm in accord with what I assume most people fall; the government at every level dropped the ball hard on this one. A tradegy. A human moment of flat out despair and sadness and shock.
I think in the forum shorthand many of our intentions get hidden away as we type in haste to get to the next post.
On Spike:
It seems one hears nothing but controversy from this filmmaker, whether he's critisizing the federal gvovenrment, the local government, society, tv, the industry that feeds him, popular music ......
Everything is about oppression and racism it seems with him. He never comes across as a postive light in that realm, but a negative reminder, constantly hammering that racsim is alive and well.
His lawsuit on Spike TV saying they could not use that name showed us how egotistical he is.
I dont consider him a racist in the traditional sense, but I do consider him a crusader whose energy is spent in the wrong areas. He is less than a positive infleunce.
Its like I am aware of racsim in this country and I find it a terrible thing we have to live with in society, but this guy wont let it rest it seems. Its always about that card with him. It seems everything he does has that agenda.
Sometimes I wonder if he is helping the cause, or just creating disssent.
QUOTES LIKE
Just can only divide, don't ya think ? Will Spike ever try and bring the people together or will he simply continue to point the finger and make the racist card appear time and time again ?
Hmm
I think someone like Martin Luther King rasied awareness the right way, whereas someone like Malcolm X did not. I feel that Spike leans on the curve of Malcolm.
Maybe that makes sense? Of course, this is my opinion based on my perceived persona of the man. I do not profess to being the SPIKE MASTA like say on the subject of Tarantino.
I think if I met Spike Lee, I would have great reservation in taking him in in an immediate capacity. I'd be very hesitant due to my impressoins (which of course could be far off base)
ON the subject of his talent?
I have only seen
School Daze
Loved Do the Right Thing
Jungle Fever
Malcolm X
Summer of Sam
and liked all of them. I do wonder if he;ll ever do anything that is not agenda driven. (It is ofcourse okay if he does not)
Ill clarify immediately and say that my takes are based on NOT SEEING IT and in speculation. A couple times, I have made it a point to ask 'How much of the conspiracy' is in it, we don't know.'
To further be redundant, my comments are in the world of this thread and the subject of that topic within this thread,
I'm in accord with what I assume most people fall; the government at every level dropped the ball hard on this one. A tradegy. A human moment of flat out despair and sadness and shock.
I think in the forum shorthand many of our intentions get hidden away as we type in haste to get to the next post.
On Spike:
It seems one hears nothing but controversy from this filmmaker, whether he's critisizing the federal gvovenrment, the local government, society, tv, the industry that feeds him, popular music ......
Everything is about oppression and racism it seems with him. He never comes across as a postive light in that realm, but a negative reminder, constantly hammering that racsim is alive and well.
His lawsuit on Spike TV saying they could not use that name showed us how egotistical he is.
I dont consider him a racist in the traditional sense, but I do consider him a crusader whose energy is spent in the wrong areas. He is less than a positive infleunce.
Its like I am aware of racsim in this country and I find it a terrible thing we have to live with in society, but this guy wont let it rest it seems. Its always about that card with him. It seems everything he does has that agenda.
Sometimes I wonder if he is helping the cause, or just creating disssent.
QUOTES LIKE
Just can only divide, don't ya think ? Will Spike ever try and bring the people together or will he simply continue to point the finger and make the racist card appear time and time again ?
Hmm
I think someone like Martin Luther King rasied awareness the right way, whereas someone like Malcolm X did not. I feel that Spike leans on the curve of Malcolm.
Maybe that makes sense? Of course, this is my opinion based on my perceived persona of the man. I do not profess to being the SPIKE MASTA like say on the subject of Tarantino.
I think if I met Spike Lee, I would have great reservation in taking him in in an immediate capacity. I'd be very hesitant due to my impressoins (which of course could be far off base)
ON the subject of his talent?
I have only seen
School Daze
Loved Do the Right Thing
Jungle Fever
Malcolm X
Summer of Sam
and liked all of them. I do wonder if he;ll ever do anything that is not agenda driven. (It is ofcourse okay if he does not)
Jared Meyer
Veteran
Good post, John. I agree with your assessment of the man.
Spike's most recent feature, "Inside Man," comes to mind as the only movie of his not based on controversial material. Good flick, too.
I would like to point out the obvious fact that this thread is a perfect example of what Spike's comments have achieved. He could have kept cool in the interviews and let it be about the doc; now, however, the conspiracy theories will factor into every discussion of his project.
I am the one who brought it up in this thread, and I could very well not have - but I think it is important to know where the "documentarian" is coming from, (not just Spike, ANY documentary filmmaker) especially when that stance might not be as logical or impartial as one would expect.
Spike's most recent feature, "Inside Man," comes to mind as the only movie of his not based on controversial material. Good flick, too.
I would like to point out the obvious fact that this thread is a perfect example of what Spike's comments have achieved. He could have kept cool in the interviews and let it be about the doc; now, however, the conspiracy theories will factor into every discussion of his project.
I am the one who brought it up in this thread, and I could very well not have - but I think it is important to know where the "documentarian" is coming from, (not just Spike, ANY documentary filmmaker) especially when that stance might not be as logical or impartial as one would expect.
If it keeps on rainin', levee's going to break
If it keeps on rainin', levee's going to break
A-when the levee breaks, have no place to stay
Mean old levee, taught me to weep and moan and moan
Mean old levee, taught me to weep and moan
It's got what it takes to make a mountain-man leave his home
Oh, well-a, oh, well-a, oh, well-a, ooh-ooh
A-don't it make ya feel bad
when you're tryin' to find your way home
and ya don't know which way to go
If you're goin' down south and they've no work to do
then ya go north to Chicago, ah, 'eah, 'eah, hey
Cryin' won't help ya, prayin' won't do ya no good
Now, cryin' won't help ya, prayin' won't do ya no good
A-when the levee breaks, mama, you got to move, a-woo-hoo
All last night, sat on the levee and moaned
All last night, sat on the levee and moaned
Thinkin' 'bout my baby and my happy home, oh-hoh
Ah-ah-ah, ah-ah-ah, ah-ah-ah, ha
Ah-ah-ah, ah-ah-ah, ah-ah-ah, ha
Oh, oh
Goin', I'm goin' to Chicago, goin' to Chicago
Sorry, but I can't take you
Goin' down, goin' down, now, goin' down, a-goin' down, now
Goin' down, goin' down, goin' down, goin' down, yeahh
Goin' down, goin' down, now, goin' down, goin' down, now
Goin' down, goin' down, now, goin' down
Goin' down, down, down, down, down
Ooh-woo-ooh, ooh-woo-ooh
If it keeps on rainin', levee's going to break
A-when the levee breaks, have no place to stay
Mean old levee, taught me to weep and moan and moan
Mean old levee, taught me to weep and moan
It's got what it takes to make a mountain-man leave his home
Oh, well-a, oh, well-a, oh, well-a, ooh-ooh
A-don't it make ya feel bad
when you're tryin' to find your way home
and ya don't know which way to go
If you're goin' down south and they've no work to do
then ya go north to Chicago, ah, 'eah, 'eah, hey
Cryin' won't help ya, prayin' won't do ya no good
Now, cryin' won't help ya, prayin' won't do ya no good
A-when the levee breaks, mama, you got to move, a-woo-hoo
All last night, sat on the levee and moaned
All last night, sat on the levee and moaned
Thinkin' 'bout my baby and my happy home, oh-hoh
Ah-ah-ah, ah-ah-ah, ah-ah-ah, ha
Ah-ah-ah, ah-ah-ah, ah-ah-ah, ha
Oh, oh
Goin', I'm goin' to Chicago, goin' to Chicago
Sorry, but I can't take you
Goin' down, goin' down, now, goin' down, a-goin' down, now
Goin' down, goin' down, goin' down, goin' down, yeahh
Goin' down, goin' down, now, goin' down, goin' down, now
Goin' down, goin' down, now, goin' down
Goin' down, down, down, down, down
Ooh-woo-ooh, ooh-woo-ooh
SpikeTV... yeah. That was an amazing stretch there. If anything, I'd say the SpikeTV people should have been worried over the reverse-association!
I'm not a fan of Spike Lee's films - any of them really. I always thought I just didn't get New York. Might be.
That quote that is attributed to Mr. Lee about the government choosing to douse the black community to save the French Quarter isn't attributed to Mr. Lee as far as I could tell from watching the doc - at least not as a part of the piece. I think that voice-over narrative came from Winton Marsalis?
Could be wrong here, but the only crack I heard from Mr. Lee through the whole thing was as an AP during an interview with a white man who talked ad nauseum about the number of weapons he had at-hand when he returned to New Orleans.
It was a poignant and funny moment within the larger story of violence and rioting that the picture covered for less than ten or so minutes. I would not say that undue or slanted attention was lavished on the myriad "rioting" stories reported by outlets like CNN on days 7 - 10.
e
I'm not a fan of Spike Lee's films - any of them really. I always thought I just didn't get New York. Might be.
That quote that is attributed to Mr. Lee about the government choosing to douse the black community to save the French Quarter isn't attributed to Mr. Lee as far as I could tell from watching the doc - at least not as a part of the piece. I think that voice-over narrative came from Winton Marsalis?
Could be wrong here, but the only crack I heard from Mr. Lee through the whole thing was as an AP during an interview with a white man who talked ad nauseum about the number of weapons he had at-hand when he returned to New Orleans.
It was a poignant and funny moment within the larger story of violence and rioting that the picture covered for less than ten or so minutes. I would not say that undue or slanted attention was lavished on the myriad "rioting" stories reported by outlets like CNN on days 7 - 10.
e
DarkMatter
Veteran
Gotta say Inside man and some of his other films are pretty good. I saw this doc yesterday and i truly believe.... rap music is to blame. Oh and the hurricane, and the mayor "a black man" who did dick all when he knew there were problems. Course he didn't live in the french quarter.
Alot of misinformed people out there, who will believe anything the media tells them.
Alot of misinformed people out there, who will believe anything the media tells them.
Spike's been misquoted since the beginning of his career. I'm not a huge fan of his work, I think the characterizations in his films lack depth. I think this is the case because Spike is big on exploring issues, for example societal myths and stereotypes. His characters tend to illustrate those stereotypes and I don't think he fully develops his characters.
I just read a book on his interviews and it made me look at him differently. It's too easy to just dismiss and say he hates white people or he's a racist. He doesn't. Check out this book:
Spike Lee: Interviews (Conversations With Filmmakers Series)
http://www.amazon.com/Spike-Lee-Interviews-Conversations-Filmmakers/dp/1578064708/sr=8-1/qid=1157296020/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-9121245-7805434?ie=UTF8&s=books
I read this book and realized how much of what he says is taken out of context. He's a strong personality, and those are the easiest to tear down. I'm halfway through watching Levee's and pretty much agree with Overland's assessment. He's pretty much just given the citizens of New Orleans a platform to air their grievances. We're not hearing a lot of these voices right now and it's important.
And Spike is very responsibile with his documentary work. His documentary 4 Little Girls, about the bombing of a black church during the Civil Rights movement is very well done.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118540/
I don't think it's smart to believe everything you read. Spike is an easy target because he has strong opinions and isn't afraid to express them. If you just read what's printed, he comes off like a zealot. This thread is pretty slanderous so I'll bring it to a close...
I just read a book on his interviews and it made me look at him differently. It's too easy to just dismiss and say he hates white people or he's a racist. He doesn't. Check out this book:
Spike Lee: Interviews (Conversations With Filmmakers Series)
http://www.amazon.com/Spike-Lee-Interviews-Conversations-Filmmakers/dp/1578064708/sr=8-1/qid=1157296020/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-9121245-7805434?ie=UTF8&s=books
I read this book and realized how much of what he says is taken out of context. He's a strong personality, and those are the easiest to tear down. I'm halfway through watching Levee's and pretty much agree with Overland's assessment. He's pretty much just given the citizens of New Orleans a platform to air their grievances. We're not hearing a lot of these voices right now and it's important.
And Spike is very responsibile with his documentary work. His documentary 4 Little Girls, about the bombing of a black church during the Civil Rights movement is very well done.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118540/
I don't think it's smart to believe everything you read. Spike is an easy target because he has strong opinions and isn't afraid to express them. If you just read what's printed, he comes off like a zealot. This thread is pretty slanderous so I'll bring it to a close...
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