FilmMakerr
Veteran
I know people whove had cops in their movies because they love being in front of the camera, and I know a guy who took plenty of pictures of this one cop, all he did was smile and give him the thumb.
It’s against the law to take picture of police
- Thread starter Camera Expert
- Start date
We had two camera crews detained at the US - Mexico border when we inadvertently filmed the US Border Patrol in some wider establishing shots. At the end of the exchange, we walked away with our cameras, tapes and somewhat soiled underwear in-hand.
During our temporary detention, a spectacular yarn about drug smuggling, bribery, coercion, kidnapping and murder was spun to justify our temporary "diversion" and to convince us of how important it was to protect the identity of the officers employed at the gateway to naughty Central America.
Doing documentary and reality for a living, I've adopted a policy of lowering the camera to the ground when an officer approaches me to enquire on our activities. It relaxes them and makes me approachable as a person. The subsequent resulting exchanges have always been pleasant, professional and ended without incident (penal or otherwise).
At the same time, I am wholly committed that I will not be deterred from taking footage of police or other government employees if they are participating in a newsworthy event or happening, regardless of what light it paints them in. This is our constitutional right and we are [edit: obligated] entitled to protect it.
e
During our temporary detention, a spectacular yarn about drug smuggling, bribery, coercion, kidnapping and murder was spun to justify our temporary "diversion" and to convince us of how important it was to protect the identity of the officers employed at the gateway to naughty Central America.
Doing documentary and reality for a living, I've adopted a policy of lowering the camera to the ground when an officer approaches me to enquire on our activities. It relaxes them and makes me approachable as a person. The subsequent resulting exchanges have always been pleasant, professional and ended without incident (penal or otherwise).
At the same time, I am wholly committed that I will not be deterred from taking footage of police or other government employees if they are participating in a newsworthy event or happening, regardless of what light it paints them in. This is our constitutional right and we are [edit: obligated] entitled to protect it.
e
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bartoy
Active member
It is so utterly ridiculous to me that police abuse their power in such ways. In many cases, they just tell you that you can't do something and if you challenge them on it, they might just take you in. It ends up being a no win situation.
But, we must challenge them. It is our duty as citizens to "speak truth to power" or else we allow and encourage the erosion of our liberties. It is in those moments that we have a duty to stand our ground. These are the moments in which liberty is truly in action. Real liberty. Not that type of liberty that has devolved into the belief that you are free as long as you can choose Coke or Pepsi.
It is time that we stand up to these arguments of "security" that are somehow couched in terms of either being "fer us" or "agin us." In reality, the only thing that has changed in the "post-9/11" world is how much the government can abuse the rights and liberties of their citizens in the name of safety.
But, we must challenge them. It is our duty as citizens to "speak truth to power" or else we allow and encourage the erosion of our liberties. It is in those moments that we have a duty to stand our ground. These are the moments in which liberty is truly in action. Real liberty. Not that type of liberty that has devolved into the belief that you are free as long as you can choose Coke or Pepsi.
It is time that we stand up to these arguments of "security" that are somehow couched in terms of either being "fer us" or "agin us." In reality, the only thing that has changed in the "post-9/11" world is how much the government can abuse the rights and liberties of their citizens in the name of safety.
Nathyn
Low Budget Ninja
I agree with both sides on this one. We have the right to do a lot, yes but there are things that are just not smart. If a cop doesn't want to be filmed leave him alone (unless he or she is doing something that violates the public trust). I'm not saying you have to do anything but you can decide how much trouble you want to put up with. What gets me about this story is the cop never gave him a warning to stop taking pictures but if the story is accurate simply decides to arrest a civilian for the fun of it.
In Chicago you're really not supposed to be shooting films without a permit but with so many indie filmmakers here cops are pretty cool about it. Obviously the way the law is written if you're not causing a problem or blocking streets there's no problem but people can legally call the cops of you for making too much noise or even just out of spite, example: We had a character discussing the Bible and two white guys walked by and chimed in their negative and (and unasked for) opinions of the Bible totally ruining our shot. You can feel how you want to feel but what makes a person feel this is proper human behavior.
People like this make us weary because we don't know what their next move is going to be. They could easily call the cops and cause a lot of trouble. Even though the cops had passed and talked to us (one of our actresses to be precise) and were cool, someone making a call simply because they don't like the little conversation they heard as they walked by could make a claim of disturbing the peace. Nothing came of this but anything is possible. Even with permits cops are only around if you call them and have little control over citizens who misbehave then walk off.
I haven't had trouble yet thank God. Lowering the camera when talking to a cop usually ends with the cop leaving with no incident and sometimes they hang around adding extra security for your set. And frankly we have cute chicks on our sets many times and cops like cute chicks so that helps.
But seriously you all know the commotion a camera and a boom mic can cause. Maybe not on downtown streets where people are more business oriented but in residential areas it can be a hoot so sometimes having cops around is good.
Ironically before I got into filmmaking when I was working at a company downtown a cop approached me and a friend of mine and our hip-hop, dread wearing white associate. (I bring the white guy up because we were dressed business casual and he was a white rapper wannabe dressed hip hop with blonde dreads. So it seems no matter what the black guys are always suspects).
This cop started saying they (he) had gotten a report about a couple of black guys with a camera. ????? Anyway he asked us to search our bag which we didn't allow. We explained we had just come from work in the building and even if we had a camera since when was it a crime for black people to take pictures. After this exchange he tried to make sense of the whole situation and we took that oppurtunity to walk away. To this day I don't know what that was all about or why anyone would even call the cops about black guys and a camera. Keep in mind this was pre 9/11. (Never questioned hip-hop white boy).
-Nate
In Chicago you're really not supposed to be shooting films without a permit but with so many indie filmmakers here cops are pretty cool about it. Obviously the way the law is written if you're not causing a problem or blocking streets there's no problem but people can legally call the cops of you for making too much noise or even just out of spite, example: We had a character discussing the Bible and two white guys walked by and chimed in their negative and (and unasked for) opinions of the Bible totally ruining our shot. You can feel how you want to feel but what makes a person feel this is proper human behavior.
People like this make us weary because we don't know what their next move is going to be. They could easily call the cops and cause a lot of trouble. Even though the cops had passed and talked to us (one of our actresses to be precise) and were cool, someone making a call simply because they don't like the little conversation they heard as they walked by could make a claim of disturbing the peace. Nothing came of this but anything is possible. Even with permits cops are only around if you call them and have little control over citizens who misbehave then walk off.
I haven't had trouble yet thank God. Lowering the camera when talking to a cop usually ends with the cop leaving with no incident and sometimes they hang around adding extra security for your set. And frankly we have cute chicks on our sets many times and cops like cute chicks so that helps.
But seriously you all know the commotion a camera and a boom mic can cause. Maybe not on downtown streets where people are more business oriented but in residential areas it can be a hoot so sometimes having cops around is good.Ironically before I got into filmmaking when I was working at a company downtown a cop approached me and a friend of mine and our hip-hop, dread wearing white associate. (I bring the white guy up because we were dressed business casual and he was a white rapper wannabe dressed hip hop with blonde dreads. So it seems no matter what the black guys are always suspects).
This cop started saying they (he) had gotten a report about a couple of black guys with a camera. ????? Anyway he asked us to search our bag which we didn't allow. We explained we had just come from work in the building and even if we had a camera since when was it a crime for black people to take pictures. After this exchange he tried to make sense of the whole situation and we took that oppurtunity to walk away. To this day I don't know what that was all about or why anyone would even call the cops about black guys and a camera. Keep in mind this was pre 9/11. (Never questioned hip-hop white boy).
-Nate
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Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
JBT's don't like to be recorded when doing bad things.
XCheck
Veteran
Not to disagree. But if you want your message to be taken seriously, maybe you should start by changing your avatar. Using the image of V.I. Lenin is as offensive as using the image of Hitler, Stalin, or the swastika. You may believe whatever you want, but this image promotes communism, which is a hateful ideology and could offend some members (you guessed, I am one of them).bartoy said:
Unless, of course, your "Real libery" refers to the liberties of citizens of former Soviet Union or other countries that embraced communism, in which case I'd suggest you print your avatar on a T-shirt and move to Cuba.
Thanks.
It amazes me that in a community of artists, there are so many advocating a clear violation of the Constitution.
There is only one side to this and the police need to always follow the law. As the saying goes "absolute power corrupts absolutely." This clearly falls under the purview of the 1st amendment (freedom of speech) (Note: Freedom of the press does not apply to individual citizens) Cops need to show restraint and when they do not, as in this case, they are subject to being checked by the judiciary.
There is only one side to this and the police need to always follow the law. As the saying goes "absolute power corrupts absolutely." This clearly falls under the purview of the 1st amendment (freedom of speech) (Note: Freedom of the press does not apply to individual citizens) Cops need to show restraint and when they do not, as in this case, they are subject to being checked by the judiciary.
Police officers are owed a thank you for what they do. That thank you goes by the name of "pay check". I help pay them and so do most of you. Other than that they deserve the gentlemanly courtesy you would extend to any other human NO MORE NO LESS. They choose the work they do (my mother was a narcotics detective for 8 years).
If the police dont want to look bad on camera they should definitely never do anything that would look bad. Obviously there are some grey areas. It would probably not be ethical or honorable to follow undercover detectives from the station house and blow their cover. At the same time if they can be picked up by a photographer maybe they arent all that undercover. etc etc
Excusing police bad behavior based on stress, overtime work etc is unacceptable and directly damaging to our society as a whole. They are professionals and they shall be held to a high standard by me as a citizen.
The day photo journalists slink away from the police in fear is the day they behave unpatriotically.
If the police dont want to look bad on camera they should definitely never do anything that would look bad. Obviously there are some grey areas. It would probably not be ethical or honorable to follow undercover detectives from the station house and blow their cover. At the same time if they can be picked up by a photographer maybe they arent all that undercover. etc etc
Excusing police bad behavior based on stress, overtime work etc is unacceptable and directly damaging to our society as a whole. They are professionals and they shall be held to a high standard by me as a citizen.
The day photo journalists slink away from the police in fear is the day they behave unpatriotically.
You are right and wrong sir. Stalin was an evil human. Communism is from each according to their ability and to each according to their needs. Communism in theory is enlightened and giving. In practice it has not been workable (although a blend of free market and communism is raging from a financial perspective in china with human rights still SORELY lacking but improving slowly).
My original quote is this. "Humans are too bad to be pure communists and too good to be pure capitalists." I believe that sums things up well.
My original quote is this. "Humans are too bad to be pure communists and too good to be pure capitalists." I believe that sums things up well.
digitial dan
Carbonite Member
Wow Hans,
You speak some pretty scary stuff, sounds like advice from Hitler or Stalin....last time I checked this was still America....cops are not holier than thou....like you said they are just like you and me....only they are much worse.....
You speak some pretty scary stuff, sounds like advice from Hitler or Stalin....last time I checked this was still America....cops are not holier than thou....like you said they are just like you and me....only they are much worse.....
bartoy
Active member
XCheck,
While I can understand your position given your life spent in Communist Czechoslovakia, I think that your indictment of Lenin and really the "idea" of communism is misplaced. An original reading of Marx will allow you to see that what you were brought up under and what the world has come to know as "communism" was not what Marx had intended. Thus, the famous quote from Marx, "I am not a Marxist."
I do not want to whole heartedly defend an individual because every individual has their faults and their actions must in some ways also be understood in historical context. However, I do not think that it is fair to paint with a broad brush and suggest that Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, and the swastika could be considered equivalent. This is truly preposterous. The image of Lenin was appropriated after his death and I think that what your words speak to are the image of Lenin and not his ideas. As you most likely know, Lenin was opposed to Stalin and in his last writings foresaw the dangers of totalitarianism and urged his compatriots to take power from Stalin.
I value your perspective but I think that it is important to look critically at your perpective. I do not think that it is fair to throw out the ideas and works of Lenin because regimes, to which he would most likely have been opposed, have co-opted his image and name for their own purposes. It is interesting that they used his image so much and failed to use his ideas.
I think that there is a key distinction to be made in this case.
While I can understand your position given your life spent in Communist Czechoslovakia, I think that your indictment of Lenin and really the "idea" of communism is misplaced. An original reading of Marx will allow you to see that what you were brought up under and what the world has come to know as "communism" was not what Marx had intended. Thus, the famous quote from Marx, "I am not a Marxist."
I do not want to whole heartedly defend an individual because every individual has their faults and their actions must in some ways also be understood in historical context. However, I do not think that it is fair to paint with a broad brush and suggest that Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, and the swastika could be considered equivalent. This is truly preposterous. The image of Lenin was appropriated after his death and I think that what your words speak to are the image of Lenin and not his ideas. As you most likely know, Lenin was opposed to Stalin and in his last writings foresaw the dangers of totalitarianism and urged his compatriots to take power from Stalin.
I value your perspective but I think that it is important to look critically at your perpective. I do not think that it is fair to throw out the ideas and works of Lenin because regimes, to which he would most likely have been opposed, have co-opted his image and name for their own purposes. It is interesting that they used his image so much and failed to use his ideas.
I think that there is a key distinction to be made in this case.
GlimmerGhost
Well-known member
What are we all living in the 50's?! Should we all take this advice and move out of America if we aren't speaking native american?XCheck said:
I think Every single person here has made at least one valid point in each of their posts... and pooled with some self control we could (and should DVXusers) have an adult argument where everything is civilized once in awhile. Why do the moderators have to shut a thread like this down like if we were little kids dirtying things up without any kind of judgement? When we can show everyone including ourselves that we are capable of having an argument about any subject including race, religion and politics - argue the subjects as adults and still be DVXusers at the end of it. Artists who are friends because they all share one passion regardless of all our differences.
Yet like so many other threads, here we are arguing about who is right or wrong with big words and short tempers and not a one adult amongst.
XCheck
Veteran
Bartoy,
I am fully aware that this thread is bordering on political, and will probably be shut down - so be it. I am going to comment on a couple of your points - and bear in mind, I generally agree with most of what you said in your other posts.
I have again and again encountered the notion that people in the East Bloc were simply brainwashed. While that is undoubtedly true, we did have a chance to read 'original' Marx, Engels, and Lenin, more than vast majority of people in the West. That's why we have such strong opinions on this. Lenin was known as extremely arrogant writer who wouldn't hesitate to use his opponents' physical characteristics to ridicule them and deride their thoughts, with no regards to the actual merit of what they had to say. Marx was a phrenology freak, a bigoted racist who thought that Jews and Slavs were inferior races, destined to the ash-heap of history, along with the bourgois. But no swastika here...
My final point: there are images that are offensive to large groups of people. This site does not allow political discussion for a reason - it tends to divide people rather than bringing them together -as we can witness in this very thread. Strong political icons (which Lenin undoubtedly is) do the same. I don't want to be in a situation that instead of considering the merit of what you have to say, I feel ashamed and enraged that a fellow user promotes (maybe unwittingly) a man whose actions led to the suffering and death of millions of innocent people.
Peace, and long live our liberty!:beer:
I am fully aware that this thread is bordering on political, and will probably be shut down - so be it. I am going to comment on a couple of your points - and bear in mind, I generally agree with most of what you said in your other posts.
Original Marx:bartoy said:
In this sense, the theory of the Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property.
You must, therefore, confess that by “individual” you mean no other person than the bourgeois, than the middle-class owner of property. This person must, indeed, be swept out of the way, and made impossible.
Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
These are from 'The Communist Manifesto'. I don't think they need any comments.You must, therefore, confess that by “individual” you mean no other person than the bourgeois, than the middle-class owner of property. This person must, indeed, be swept out of the way, and made impossible.
Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
This is like saying 'Stalin was not as bad as Pol Pot'. Just because he was a bit less extreme, doesn't change anything about the methods he instituted - mass executions, concentration camps, confiscation of private property (see above), starting with the political opponents and ending with peasant farmers, the list goes on and on. If you find ANYTHING that the Nazis did but the communists did not, let me know - I'd like to be illuminated. Lenin is as guilty as the rest.bartoy said:
'he would most likely have been' vs. 'what he actually said, wrote, and did'. Let's talk facts, not what 'might have been'.bartoy said:
I have again and again encountered the notion that people in the East Bloc were simply brainwashed. While that is undoubtedly true, we did have a chance to read 'original' Marx, Engels, and Lenin, more than vast majority of people in the West. That's why we have such strong opinions on this. Lenin was known as extremely arrogant writer who wouldn't hesitate to use his opponents' physical characteristics to ridicule them and deride their thoughts, with no regards to the actual merit of what they had to say. Marx was a phrenology freak, a bigoted racist who thought that Jews and Slavs were inferior races, destined to the ash-heap of history, along with the bourgois. But no swastika here...
My final point: there are images that are offensive to large groups of people. This site does not allow political discussion for a reason - it tends to divide people rather than bringing them together -as we can witness in this very thread. Strong political icons (which Lenin undoubtedly is) do the same. I don't want to be in a situation that instead of considering the merit of what you have to say, I feel ashamed and enraged that a fellow user promotes (maybe unwittingly) a man whose actions led to the suffering and death of millions of innocent people.
Peace, and long live our liberty!:beer:
faultygoblin
Active member
Well as for as the thread topic itself,
its always scary to see how the law is written and how its enforced.
I've had some near camera confiscations, and some times where I've employed the below.
i taught my little brother a technique when he records his buddys skating or some such.
Have an opened labeled tape something like new footage, have it ff'd to halfway or so... Then when approached by an authority figure switch it out and if need be hand them the blank tape. Or have a ad or something stall while filming.
Some cops are ok, and if you invite them to be part of a scene some change attitudes completely.
As far as balancing security with rights, and the role of the media there is a very distinct train of thought which equates the media with a fourth estate, in essence another part of the checks and balances required in a government.
Some things of course are classified but unless you're doing a ecu or somesuch which would reveal personal details or expose a cop to danger than it shouldn't be an issue. Honestly though I think the people enforcing our laws are often unaware of what they actually are, some really believe they have the right to confiscate video equipment and the likes, and that gun on their belt often gives them that presumption. Keep a copy of the photographers rights printout with you if possible and maybe a local free speech lawyers card just to impress some credentials on what you're saying.
Personal debates aside on the nature of marxism, current politics, and so forth (perhaps something best kept to pm or another topic) In this case something that could be construed as offensive such as V.I Lenin which no one I imagine would contest to being a controversial figure may not be the best choice for a avatar but thats up to the mods to decide. Though this could be thought of as self censorship, but whatever the issue (I'm a hothead when it comes to debate) staying on topic may not be a bad idea especialy something of this import..
I've had uncles arrested for taking photos in certain places in N. Africa, and others who have had radios ripped out of their Land Rovers so the locals couldn't hear bbc or any other subersive programs.
But the very fact we can upload video to the net, and disemenate it to so many so quickly makes us all in a manner of effect members of the press, thus unless a matter of national security (such as revealing troop position, or violating privacy of non public figures) we should have the ablity to film unafraid of backlash.
its always scary to see how the law is written and how its enforced.
I've had some near camera confiscations, and some times where I've employed the below.
i taught my little brother a technique when he records his buddys skating or some such.
Have an opened labeled tape something like new footage, have it ff'd to halfway or so... Then when approached by an authority figure switch it out and if need be hand them the blank tape. Or have a ad or something stall while filming.
Some cops are ok, and if you invite them to be part of a scene some change attitudes completely.
As far as balancing security with rights, and the role of the media there is a very distinct train of thought which equates the media with a fourth estate, in essence another part of the checks and balances required in a government.
Some things of course are classified but unless you're doing a ecu or somesuch which would reveal personal details or expose a cop to danger than it shouldn't be an issue. Honestly though I think the people enforcing our laws are often unaware of what they actually are, some really believe they have the right to confiscate video equipment and the likes, and that gun on their belt often gives them that presumption. Keep a copy of the photographers rights printout with you if possible and maybe a local free speech lawyers card just to impress some credentials on what you're saying.
Personal debates aside on the nature of marxism, current politics, and so forth (perhaps something best kept to pm or another topic) In this case something that could be construed as offensive such as V.I Lenin which no one I imagine would contest to being a controversial figure may not be the best choice for a avatar but thats up to the mods to decide. Though this could be thought of as self censorship, but whatever the issue (I'm a hothead when it comes to debate) staying on topic may not be a bad idea especialy something of this import..
I've had uncles arrested for taking photos in certain places in N. Africa, and others who have had radios ripped out of their Land Rovers so the locals couldn't hear bbc or any other subersive programs.
But the very fact we can upload video to the net, and disemenate it to so many so quickly makes us all in a manner of effect members of the press, thus unless a matter of national security (such as revealing troop position, or violating privacy of non public figures) we should have the ablity to film unafraid of backlash.
bartoy
Active member
XCheck,
I know the rules on politics so I am not going to turn the thread into a political one. So, we can just agree to disagree, as some say.
As for the question on the avatar, I have serious problems with censorship and I believe that sometimes a feeling of "discomfort" is exactly what art and critical thought are supposed to produce.
That said, your Vonnegut quote might get some folks a little uncomfortable. Not me. I absolutely adore Vonnegut. But, let's just remember that one man's pot is another man's kettle and they both happen to be black.
Liberte, Egalite, et Humanite!
Kevin.
I know the rules on politics so I am not going to turn the thread into a political one. So, we can just agree to disagree, as some say.
As for the question on the avatar, I have serious problems with censorship and I believe that sometimes a feeling of "discomfort" is exactly what art and critical thought are supposed to produce.
That said, your Vonnegut quote might get some folks a little uncomfortable. Not me. I absolutely adore Vonnegut. But, let's just remember that one man's pot is another man's kettle and they both happen to be black.
Liberte, Egalite, et Humanite!
Kevin.
500lb Productions
Well-known member
Nathyn said:
Would a cop making up his own version of the law and enforcing it (for example: You can't film me) be a direct violation of the public trust?
XCheck
Veteran
Sure. As long as one can opt out. I can easily opt out of reading stuff that I don't want to read, but it's much harder opting out of seeng stuff - if you know what I mean.bartoy said:
Back to the topic:
I had some conversations with friends and colleagues about the issue of photographing cops, and it's scary how many people don't even give it a thought. I think (as many others here do) that it is one of the essential civil liberties we have - to keep the law enforcement honest.
Tuning out. Cheers!:beer:
i cant believe this thread is still open but heres my 2cents.
a While back i was making a painting about a religous figre and it was an Equsetrian image. i saw a horse cop, and he wasnt near his horse, and i was in my car. so i took a photot of the horse cause it was the color and type i was looking for. while i checked the image, ( i was pulled over to the curb) someone hit the glass ofm y window VERY hard, with a hard object. I looked to my left and the cop was poudingmy window with his flashlight. ( it was broad daylight) and started screming at the tp of his lungs, "When an officer of the law tells you to do somethign you do it". Apparently he told me not to take a picture of the horse and i didnt hear him, as i wa in a car 100 feet away in a closed car with the radio on and Engine on. he literally threatened me with the flashlight ( one of thoes big metal MAGlights) i apologizes saying i dindnt hear him, he told me he didint care, and apparently the only thing he could do was giveme a ticket for being stopped in a no parking Zone. 160$. But in NY No parking zonesare legal to stop in, you jut cant leave the car unattended. But the level of anger, and attitude was unnecesary.
Funny thign was i always supported teh police, but now i knowwhat it feels likeot be on the other side of police aggresion too. so i think its more to do with the individual youre dealing with. this guy wa just a jerk. i still see hi msometimes, and give him dirty looks.... haha.. kinda childish but its all i can do.
a While back i was making a painting about a religous figre and it was an Equsetrian image. i saw a horse cop, and he wasnt near his horse, and i was in my car. so i took a photot of the horse cause it was the color and type i was looking for. while i checked the image, ( i was pulled over to the curb) someone hit the glass ofm y window VERY hard, with a hard object. I looked to my left and the cop was poudingmy window with his flashlight. ( it was broad daylight) and started screming at the tp of his lungs, "When an officer of the law tells you to do somethign you do it". Apparently he told me not to take a picture of the horse and i didnt hear him, as i wa in a car 100 feet away in a closed car with the radio on and Engine on. he literally threatened me with the flashlight ( one of thoes big metal MAGlights) i apologizes saying i dindnt hear him, he told me he didint care, and apparently the only thing he could do was giveme a ticket for being stopped in a no parking Zone. 160$. But in NY No parking zonesare legal to stop in, you jut cant leave the car unattended. But the level of anger, and attitude was unnecesary.
Funny thign was i always supported teh police, but now i knowwhat it feels likeot be on the other side of police aggresion too. so i think its more to do with the individual youre dealing with. this guy wa just a jerk. i still see hi msometimes, and give him dirty looks.... haha.. kinda childish but its all i can do.
