Another Day of Lessons Learned

ptalsky

Veteran
Hi all,

Just thought I would report on my latest day on a short being shot on 16MM. It was a good day, but as usual, the call time was way off for sound. My call time was 8am - first shot didn't go until almost 1pm. Oh well, I was on the clock the whole time, had all the actors wired, boom op trained and still sat around waiting.

Before I get into the good stuff that happened on this shoot, I ran into two problems I was wondering how others handled.

1. Camera noise. We not only put a barney (I think that's what it's called) and wrapped a sound blanket around the camera, but I was still picking up faint camera noise (we were shooting with an Arri SR2, which is supposed to be a synch camera). What more can be done to minimize the noise. I worked with mic angle, placement, etc. and nothing really helped. Fortunately this scene will have some fairly loud music running behind it.

2. Is there a way to adjust the volume on the slate mic on a SD302? It was running really hot, to the point of me nearly whispering the slates.

So, the good stuff:

1. Always make nice with the wardrobe department. I actually got them to change out some of the cloth on one of the actor's costumes because it was a really noise fabric and would have totally blown the lav. Also, they made a concerted effort to make sure there was a place to stick the Tx. As it turned out, for most of the shots I left them outside the wardrobe, both for actor comfort and because they didn't need to be tucked away.

2. I love my B6's even more than before. Both of them were hidden in plain site on two of the actors - and sounded great throughout the shoot. Even my EMW sounded good, and was fairly easy to hide.

3. It is awesome when you have a boom op that actually pays attention, has a clue, and wants to do good work. Even though he had never boomed before, he watched the rehearsals, and knew where the mic needed to be. I used my cartioids because he was inexperienced (and to match previous days) but I bet he could have used my hyper and still gotten good sound.

4. The ListenTechs worked great. No interference, great sound, helped facilitate communications with the director and boom op. They do tend to run very loud, so I am very careful to warn people before they put them on, and I turn down the volume on the headsets to about half to help protect their ears. See below for my improved setup and how I interfaced them. Another first for use of my Listentech's - we didn't have walkie's, so we put a ListenTech on the person guarding the door during takes. She could hear everything, so she knew when we were rolling and when we weren't.

5. Always make nice with the gaffer/grip/DP. Our set was perfect for booming. Low angle key light meant boom shadow was way up at the top of the set walls, well out of camera range. If it weren't for the noisy camera... ;-)

6. My set up this time was a bit different. I used my SD 302 for the boom and ran it into my Mackie. Wireless all went directly into the Mackie, and then line out into the Tascam HD-P2. I used the slate mic and tone generator on the SD 302 for slate and tone. I fed the ListenTech's via the headphone out on the SD (so all they were getting was boom, no lavs), which was fine. Also, jammed TC into the Tascam from my Denecke slate, and re-jammed a couple of times during the day. I ran the SD from my BDS, everything else from AC, no problems during the day.

Overall, things went very smoothly. The only major change I want to make is to get my sound reports made up in a two-part form, so I can always keep a copy, and provide one to post. I didn't get a backup this time, and this director has a tendancy to lose things.

Fortunately, this is not the same director that, on his drive home, stuck the CD I gave him into his car stereo and then called to yell at me because he didn't have any sound for the day. Oy, some directors shouldn't be directors. ;-)

And, I still think I need to get a t-shirt made that says, "If my headphones are on, I probably can't hear you..." and on the back it should say, "...or I'm just pretending because I don't want to talk to you..." ;-) They'll never know the truth. ;-)

Phil
 
Hey Phil,

Love hearing those reports from the set.

I have not done it but I hear of sound guys who type up there sound report on the laptop. Considering all the scribbles and arrows I use on mine I don't think I could ever make the adjustment.

In small rooms, some of those film mags can get pretty noisy. Sometimes the film was not loaded properly, sometimes the mag's sprokets are not well maintained, sometimes it's just a noisy camera. A barney and blankets with lots of gaff tape handles most of it. The rest you are often stuck with but can be removed in post fairly well. If not try to get some room tone with the camera running (have them load a dummy mag).

Pay attention to whether it is one mag that is creating the most noise or if all the mags are equally noisy. Assuming the camera is a rental have the rental house replace the noisy mag.

Good luck and have fun
 
Yeah Phil, nice report back. Ive shot a lot of 16mm on Arri SR2 cams, and they arent as quiet as people claim. At the film school we used to shoot on either the SR2 or an Aaton cam (cant remember the model), but I always used to pray for the Aaton because of how much quieter it ran than the SR2.

Wabbit is right though, "small room" syndrome is usually the only place where cam noise is a problem with those cameras. You did everything you could by the sound of things, and so it really cant be considered your fault if theres some cam noise - its up to the post folks now.

Did you run the boom on the 302 for improved pre-amping? What was the main reason for that choice?

Tim
 
Phil,
Thanks for taking the time to write up the 'Lessons Learned' posts. They contain lots of great stuff and are fun to read.
-Dan
 
16mm cams are a ***** .. i've been working with them recently on a documentary which was shot outside at a big music festival so I wasn't exactly bothered about the noise then. i've had so many nightmares with other noisy cameras, not naming any names .. cough: SONY900 :cough.. excuse me. the camera dept just has to operate under my entire wardrobe, thats all, so its their problem really.

not sure about the slate mic volume phil, was just perusing my 442 laminate, cos I thought i remembered something in the menu setup about slate mic volume, but now i can't see it. ..whispering it is then?


AHhh the wardrobe girls! I love those girls. they can stitch a mic to anything. AND: if your director is reluctant to change the costumes for sound when you tell him that you can't work with them - go to the wardrobe dept, and sweet talk them, cause then they can go to the director and guaranteed those kind girls will get you what you want. I always feel really bad about the sound-wardrobe relationship, because its quite one-way, I can't think of anytime i've ever done anything for them. except at the odd wrap party. :)

You love your b6's half as much as i hate my trams.

nothing better than getting on with the DP. It makes your life a full million times easier. I sometimes work with a guy who is dead arrogant, shoots ONLY 35, and will inevitably reduce someone to tears on a shoot with his short temper (usually the 1stAD) but I get on great with him, always enjoy bitching in the pub end of day and cigarette breaks etc, so
when theres a situation with boom shadow or anything like that he's only too happy to look at lowering or reflecting, or whatever it takes for sound + camera to be happy, hence we make good films. however hes JUST the sort of person who in the past has taken a sharp disliking to the sound guy, and has refused to move anything or even putting a light up somewhere it doesn't need to be, just so the boom op can't stand in the ideal place. real shi*ty attitude, but it happens all the time, there will always be arsey camera depts, as sure as the sun will set, so I think too that getting on with them is crucial to the entire process.

I like the tee-shirt : I'll take two!
 
Wabbit,

Unfortunately, it was just the camera. All three mags sounded equally loud. Tim said it well - this camera just ain't that quiet (I'm paraphrasing, of course). I'm also glad to hear that I'm not the only one who's reports look like a piece of modern art when finished. I've started using the following for my note taking:

1. Giant X on the take - NO GOOD, DO NOT USE!
2. Noise comment with a superscript 0 or +: 0=not over dialog, +=over dialog as in: plane+ means airplane noise over dialog.

Not sure how well that would translate into typing it, though it would be nice. That's why I'm thinking about getting 2-part NCR reports made up. They aren't that expensive (I think it was like $40 for 500 one color). It'll add to the perception that I'm a professional, too, which never hurts. ;-)

Tim, the primary reason I ran the boom into the 302 was because my mixer doesn't generate tone or have a slate mic. Add the 302 and viola! Loud slate mic and tone generation all wrapped into one. I used to just add a cheap mic to channel 12 on my mixer, but occasionally I'd forget to mute it after slating, and would notice when I heard the scratching of my pencil as I took notes. Embarrassing to have to ask for an extra take because I forgot to close the slate mic. Can't happen with the 302. Although twice I went the wrong way and sent tone instead of opening the mic. Oops...sorry director and boom op...didn't mean to blast your eardrums. ;-)

Phil
 
Okay, I finally went ahead and did it.

You can now order your official "If my headphones are on, I can't hear you" t-shirt. Check it out at:

http://www.cafepress.com/bwgproductions

Any proceeds I get from this Cafepress thingie will be donated to my favorite charity - Shambala (http://www.shambala.org) so I'm not in it for the money, just thought it would be fun to finally make this shirt. ;-) I've already ordered two. ;-)

Phil
 
Hey Guys,

Would you mind talking about what field recorder you use (if any).

If you do use a field recorder, what type of information (metadata) do you take the time to include. Forinstance mic name, good take ect.

Thanks
 
hey carlone, try a search on the forum, you'll find lots. this thread isnt really about recorders...

i just got back from a trip to kenya, and will be putting up a report soon. learned some interesting stuff too..
 
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