pixelpusher
New member
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a scanner darkly look. how to begin?
- Thread starter seantree
- Start date
Duct Tape Films
Well-known member
seantree said:
I shot the behind the scenes for "A Scanner Darkly" from pre-production all the way through post, including the months and months of animation. It will be on the DVD whenever that comes out. They use a propriatary software they use for all the rotoscoping, which is pretty much specifically geared toward that look. It functions kind of like Flash and After Effects got in some wicked car crash, and came out some sort of mutant child. The single coolest thing about the software is the tweening algorithm, which is what gives it it's "flowy" movement.
Some tweening aside, they did have to draw much of it by hand, because you can only tween so far, a few frames at the most. Rest assured, there is NO technique that you can use to specifically emulate this look 100% accurately, other than the program itself which is not for sale unfortunately, and I'm not even sure that the name of the program is supposed to be public knowledge, so I'll keep that to myself for right now. That said, what they did is incredibly labor intensive, everywhere I turned there were animators, I kept thinking to myself I was going to find animators in the closet. If you want to know more, I'm hoping the DVD will answer a few questions.
My suggestion would be to find your own way to animate using other available methods. Perhaps even your own look, rather than something based on theirs. That's actually what I am personally doing for my own upcoming film. My "off-the-shelf" weapons of choice: Studio Artist & Twixtor. Hope that helps out a little.
rorytmeadows
New member
There are a few different methods to achieve the effect. You can take video editing software and tinge the lighting and color until you get blur and reflection, but it does not have the 'cartoony' aspect to it whatsoever. The more accurate way is the more labor intensive.
I can create cartoony Scanner Darkly pictures from photos using photoshop and a tutorial described on the net here:
http://www.macmerc.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=209&page=1
You can take pretty much most video files and decomplile them into frames using this program:
http://www.am-soft.ru/aviedit.html
However this is extremely labor intensive, so much, that I'll probably never get to it. You can use the AVIedit to convert the edited pics back to video as well. The longer the video, the more pictures. I think I had a 1 minute video, decompiled 600 pictures. Although you can change the number that results by increasing the interval time between frames. Looks choppier, however.
You can check out some of the comic photos that I've converted on my rorytmeadows myspace account or by IMing me at rorytmeadows and I'll send you some cool examples. I hope that I stop drinking long enough to have some time to compile a nice video.
I can create cartoony Scanner Darkly pictures from photos using photoshop and a tutorial described on the net here:
http://www.macmerc.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=209&page=1
You can take pretty much most video files and decomplile them into frames using this program:
http://www.am-soft.ru/aviedit.html
However this is extremely labor intensive, so much, that I'll probably never get to it. You can use the AVIedit to convert the edited pics back to video as well. The longer the video, the more pictures. I think I had a 1 minute video, decompiled 600 pictures. Although you can change the number that results by increasing the interval time between frames. Looks choppier, however.
You can check out some of the comic photos that I've converted on my rorytmeadows myspace account or by IMing me at rorytmeadows and I'll send you some cool examples. I hope that I stop drinking long enough to have some time to compile a nice video.
E_D_N
Active member
Whatever they're using, they better keep improving on the technology cause I don't think it came off all that well in Linklater's first film using that look (can't remember the title)... now, that was what I call flat animation! Even Japanese anime characters are imbued with a less stiff and more lifelike animations.
And to make it all worse... that first Linklater film featured an endless array of talking heads spouting off some obscure philosophical concepts for minutes on
end. Boring and Pretentious.
Total stasis.
If I hear Ethan Hawke blabbing about Quantum physics with various and sundry loser hangers-on in a coffee shop booth again, I'll shoot myself!
Let's hope there's more action this time around -- though judging by the trailers (that have been running in theaters for over a year BTW) this looks just like more of the same.
And to make it all worse... that first Linklater film featured an endless array of talking heads spouting off some obscure philosophical concepts for minutes on
end. Boring and Pretentious.
Total stasis.
If I hear Ethan Hawke blabbing about Quantum physics with various and sundry loser hangers-on in a coffee shop booth again, I'll shoot myself!
Let's hope there's more action this time around -- though judging by the trailers (that have been running in theaters for over a year BTW) this looks just like more of the same.
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
Andrew Brinkhaus
Veteran
Yeah, I just tried a little of the roto technique by drawing a frame, this took my about 20 minutes with a tablet, just to trace it accurately, and that is still low detail!
Duct Tape Films
Well-known member
I talk to the developer all the time (I 'm autorotoscoping a feature length documentary right now), and they are getting ready to make a port of Studio Artist for Universal Binary, but behind the times me (all PPC Dual G5's in my studio), I dunno if that makes a difference for Windows or not. Insert shrug here....
Duct Tape Films
Well-known member
Blaine said:
I know they're really slammed right now trying to finish the Universal binary port. Still, I found a problem with the batch processing, and the dude, in the course of four days, sent me something like six new builds of the program trying to fix my problem. He takes it seriously making sure his program works right for the customer. You might want to go back to email, or the message board, both of which are faster methods to get a hold of him. (I think he writes his code on the beach?!? They are in Hawaii you know - oh, yeah, what time of day are you calling - time zone difference....) At any rate, from what I've heard, he's actually the dude who invented Pro Tools, although I've never confirmed that. He's about the most concerned developer of any program I've EVER used. When was last time you were anxiously emailed by the guy who invented Final Cut to make sure it was running alright? What are the questions you have? Have you posted them to the synthetik.com message board? I don't work there, but I have been using the program since it came out, kind of know it inside and out, maybe I might be able to help you....
FWIW I would recommend this program for nearly anyone involved in Film/Video production, and/or graphic and web design. It has some limitations, but it is truly one of the most original, and functional, programs, out there, and is under constant development. The things that he has planned for the future of the program, most of which are based on user suggestions are really cool, and are almost mind bending. The last update, from 3.0 to 3.5 (their first .5 upgrade with any fee) was so huge you could see why they had to charge, what with adding Supersizer, Batch Processing (now fully functional), a complete reworking of the paint synth (everything in the program using audio paradigms), and a WHOLE freaking 'nother program (which I'm not into, but many are - it can generate controlled abstract video art on the fly - a little outside my taste/uses - although probably "bitchen'" for the VJ crowd). To be quite honest, I'm still kind of shocked the user base is so small, however it does have a real community vibe around this program. If you do get it, I'll be glad to help you get going on designing your own PASeq's (the macros that allow guided autorotoscoping).
Here's the trailer for the animated documentary I'm doing with SA 3.5
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3594052906572694578
If that link doesn't work, I've got it a few other places. Still getting the site up for the movie....
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Andrew Brinkhaus
Veteran
I watched your trailer, and I was hoping for more of an animated look. It still felt VERY live action. Most of the time I couldnt tell if it was animated, though, I loved the content.
Duct Tape Films
Well-known member
It was animated at 12P, in the style of 20th Century American Painters of Realism (Hopper, Wyeth, Sargent, & Homer), not like a cartoon look, which is what I'm thinking you may have been expecting - this is more like natural media (watercolor, oil, graphite) - so there are no big black outlines or flat cartoony areas, like in a "cel animation" - everything is blended like a painter would; afterward then I used Twixtor to get it back to 24P, thus the "realistic" motion, instead of the strobing inherent of doubling 12P.
Online it's harder to see since you're looking at 320x240 instead of 1280x720, I do guarantee you it's 100% animated, blended strokes and lines, NONE of the original source is actually still present. The look is kind of based on a visual trick in John Singer-Sargent's paintings, whereby the further away you get from the picture, it looks VERY realistic, the closer you get, you realize that it's just a freaking mass of strokes. The same effect exists with this projected onto a big screen, or even on a television. Online, it's certainly less noticeable, but still present. Glad you enjoyed the content....
Online it's harder to see since you're looking at 320x240 instead of 1280x720, I do guarantee you it's 100% animated, blended strokes and lines, NONE of the original source is actually still present. The look is kind of based on a visual trick in John Singer-Sargent's paintings, whereby the further away you get from the picture, it looks VERY realistic, the closer you get, you realize that it's just a freaking mass of strokes. The same effect exists with this projected onto a big screen, or even on a television. Online, it's certainly less noticeable, but still present. Glad you enjoyed the content....
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Well...
Well...
That effect for the documentary trailer just gives the impression that it was filmed with a twenty year old camcorder. The people look like when you paste an image onto a background in Photoshop with the contrast and lighting completely off. It also reminds me of special effects from big-budget 70's movies, in my opinion that style of animation is moving backwards instead of progressing into new visual territory. That said, I think it can be used effectively to draw a viewer's focus to where you want it to be, which is especially useful for a documentary. I am assuming the trailer is not fully edited footage, so I look forward to seeing the finished film at the proper resolution!
Well...
That effect for the documentary trailer just gives the impression that it was filmed with a twenty year old camcorder. The people look like when you paste an image onto a background in Photoshop with the contrast and lighting completely off. It also reminds me of special effects from big-budget 70's movies, in my opinion that style of animation is moving backwards instead of progressing into new visual territory. That said, I think it can be used effectively to draw a viewer's focus to where you want it to be, which is especially useful for a documentary. I am assuming the trailer is not fully edited footage, so I look forward to seeing the finished film at the proper resolution!
Duct Tape Films
Well-known member
Sure am glad I made my movie for viewers, and not for filmmakers.
Again, the effect, is not an "effect". It is animated, a method whereby each and every frame, well every other frame or even every third frame, is drawn. So to repeat, animation is not a "look", it is a method. Have any of you here actually looked at American Realism paintings before, which IS the actual "look" I'm going for, and actually came quite close to succeeding at, if I might say so myself? Almost all of it looks, well, 3D-ish, & flat simultaneously, complete from a distance and kinda messy as you get closer. The complaint that it doesn't look like animation enough to call it animation is so much nonsense, as animation itself doesn't have a look, people. Walt Disney CARTOONS have a look. "A Scanner Darkly" has a look, a stylebook even, which I saw first hand shooting the behind the scenes for. That comment (by bballplaya283) makes about as much sense as saying a movie doesn't look like a movie, because it REALLY looks like just a bunch of still pictures shown one after another. You don't like the style with which it was animated, because in your mind an animation should look like a cartoon? You are most certainly entitled to your opinion, as all tastes are different, but your own personal preferences don't make it an animation any less, as that was the method by which it was accomplished, frame by freakin' frame. Is claymation not animation because it uses clay instead of cels? Stepping down from the soapbox, people....
The NEXT person that wants to know how to freakin' look like "A Scanner Darkly", as this subject seems to be coming up daily, lookey here....
1) Shoot your movie.
2) Code your own rotoscoping software that does what Sabison's software does, or more realistically, use Flash, After Effects, Studio Artist, Illustrator, Toonboom Studio, a pen, some ink, & a pile of tracing paper/cels, or any combination thereof. I recommend Studio Artist, as it's all laid out right there, designed specifically for rotoscoping, and you can use it any style you want to.
3a) Get your own "look", or "style" or....
3b) Rotoscope it using flat colors, and bold, equally weighted, outlines to get that "cartoony" anime' look.*
4) Do it THE SAME WAY for every frame drawn.
5) Interpolate smooth motion, either with vectors in the program you're using if capable, or use Twixtor. Repeat and rinse.
It's that simple, and that complicated. Enjoy....
*It was the intention of a certain producer on "Scanner" to get it to look like anime'. Did they succeed? Quite close enough as a reference point, but they came out of it with something different, something entirely THEIR own, which is ALWAYS a better result, IMHO. Is it anime'? No, it's even better, it's its own thing.
Again, the effect, is not an "effect". It is animated, a method whereby each and every frame, well every other frame or even every third frame, is drawn. So to repeat, animation is not a "look", it is a method. Have any of you here actually looked at American Realism paintings before, which IS the actual "look" I'm going for, and actually came quite close to succeeding at, if I might say so myself? Almost all of it looks, well, 3D-ish, & flat simultaneously, complete from a distance and kinda messy as you get closer. The complaint that it doesn't look like animation enough to call it animation is so much nonsense, as animation itself doesn't have a look, people. Walt Disney CARTOONS have a look. "A Scanner Darkly" has a look, a stylebook even, which I saw first hand shooting the behind the scenes for. That comment (by bballplaya283) makes about as much sense as saying a movie doesn't look like a movie, because it REALLY looks like just a bunch of still pictures shown one after another. You don't like the style with which it was animated, because in your mind an animation should look like a cartoon? You are most certainly entitled to your opinion, as all tastes are different, but your own personal preferences don't make it an animation any less, as that was the method by which it was accomplished, frame by freakin' frame. Is claymation not animation because it uses clay instead of cels? Stepping down from the soapbox, people....
The NEXT person that wants to know how to freakin' look like "A Scanner Darkly", as this subject seems to be coming up daily, lookey here....
1) Shoot your movie.
2) Code your own rotoscoping software that does what Sabison's software does, or more realistically, use Flash, After Effects, Studio Artist, Illustrator, Toonboom Studio, a pen, some ink, & a pile of tracing paper/cels, or any combination thereof. I recommend Studio Artist, as it's all laid out right there, designed specifically for rotoscoping, and you can use it any style you want to.
3a) Get your own "look", or "style" or....
3b) Rotoscope it using flat colors, and bold, equally weighted, outlines to get that "cartoony" anime' look.*
4) Do it THE SAME WAY for every frame drawn.
5) Interpolate smooth motion, either with vectors in the program you're using if capable, or use Twixtor. Repeat and rinse.
It's that simple, and that complicated. Enjoy....
*It was the intention of a certain producer on "Scanner" to get it to look like anime'. Did they succeed? Quite close enough as a reference point, but they came out of it with something different, something entirely THEIR own, which is ALWAYS a better result, IMHO. Is it anime'? No, it's even better, it's its own thing.
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