Vegas and HVX's 60FPS

Norm Sanders

Norm Sanders

Script Wrangler
So I know if you take interlaced footage into a 24P timeline & render it out, you'll lose some resolution. Meaning, with the DVX100a, if I want the most latitude for NICE slow motion in post, then I shoot 60i, but when it hits the 24P timeline it'll lose resolution when it deinterlaces it.

So, with my eventual purchase of the HVX, and in hopes of continuing to work with Vegas (once I know it'll handle the HVX codec with no work arounds), what if I did the following?

Always shoot in 60P, and just drop it into the 24P timeline. When I render it out, it should still give it that nice 24P filmic look from the render cadence (right?), but if I want to slow something down, then I can take that 60P footage and slow it down to 40% of the original speed for SILKY smooth slow motion.

Is this correct thinking, or am I off base?

Would there be any noticeable difference between shooting 24P in camera or just taking 60P and rendering out from a 24P timeline?
 
Just use the variable framerates within the HVX itself. They're only available in 720p, of course, but man, do they take the hassle out of slo-mo and temporal changes. They come out as a 24p file already in slo-mo . . . or fast-mo, if that's what you want.
 
Envision, I think I understand what you are saying. You want to shoot 60P always which would give you the option of changing the framerates in post to pretty much anything. While I'm sure you could take your 60P footage and convert it to 24P, you wouldn't be able to do it with out some degredation, as you are going from 60 individual frames and chopping them down to 24 individual frames. 24 does not go into 60 evenly, so there has to be some frame manipulation. The other thing you have going against you is your cadence, while true 24P footage is sampled at 24Hz, 60P footage is sampled at 60hz. Whether or not you would be able to tell the difference I guess is up to how trained your eye is, and how well the vegas algorithm for reaching 24 frames can be done. I know this isn't really an answer, but maybe you could download some 60p footge and try it out, see what happens. I personally would not shoot 60P unless I was editing in a 60P timeline (probobaly not for a very long time) or I'm using it for slow motion.
 
Well, in theory, you could take 60p footage, slow it 40%, and render as 24p and get glass-smooth slo-mo with no degradation of image. Obviously using it at different speeds would be more problematic.

Of course, what I'm saying is that with the HVX, you don't have to do that. If you're shooting 60p, then you're shooting 720, and if you're shooting 720, you have variable framerates open to you. The camera literally takes care of all this for you -- you're in 24p mode, you set your VFR to 60 frames, you shoot -- it even moves like 60p in the viewfinder while you're shooting -- but it's recorded as 24p, with each 60 fps frame becoming a 24p frame. It then plays back in 2.5 to 1 slo-mo without you having to do anything.
 
scharky, you figured it right in that I was wondering about just always shooting in 60FPS. I also understand what you're saying about the variable rate in-camera, David ... and I THINK the HVX can vary on the fly, meaning in the middle of the shot you can over or under crank the camera.

My background in all this started with learning the post side of it first, so I'm used to getting it in post and THEN deciding on exactly where I'd like to hit a slow motion mark, or speed something up, etc. And since Vegas seems to be able to handle any & all FPS better than the other NLE's, I was just wondering & dreaming in advance some.

Either way, I'm realistically still at least a year out from getting an HVX, which by then they'll probably have the A model and greatly reduced costs on P2 cards. :)
 
I know you can change a number of scene file settings on the fly, but I'm not sure about frame rate -- and I don't have the HVX in front of me here to try.
 
No, you can't change the frame rate on the fly unfortunatly. Envision, I'm in the same boat, probably a little ways off from getting the HVX, but also want to stay with Vegas. I was actually just about ready to go out and get an HVX the other day, but most of my work right now is broadcast commercial, so there wouldn't be a good justification for going HD just yet, except to shoot DVC pro 50. But now I'm way off topic, I think David and I took your post two different ways, but I think we got all the angles covered that way :).
 
Frame rate is the one scene file setting that doesn't change. Just like in the DVX.

Making 24p out of 60p is going to result in the same kind of temporal mishmash that characterized 60i->24p conversions. It's better to just shoot the 24p stuff you want at 24p.

If you want to do some post-ramping things, you can consider shooting your footage at 48fps, and then frame-dropping every other frame for your 24p sequence. That way you'll have an actual properly-spaced-out 24fps stream, although the shutter speed will probably be too short for true filmic representation (since you should be shooting your 48fps at around 1/96 shutter). Maybe if you split the difference (shot at 1/72) you could come up with something that works pretty well for both?
 
Barry I need to hire you to be my interpreter. . . It always sounds so much clearer when you describe it :)
 
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