Microphones and Field Mixer Tradeoffs

[500lb Productions]

A little background:

I'm an experienced still photographer and I'm shooting (tech director / dp) an indie feature (my first) in HDV, and also shooting a "behind the scenes" documentary of the indie feature. (While I find video a logical transition (well, except for frame rates good god what were they thinking????), I wasn't expecting the complexity of audio!)

For the feature, I'm using borrowed Sony Z1U, Pana HVX200, or JVC GY-HD100U cameras. I won't have the word on which cams (and how many) until right before the shoot.

I'm using a Sony HVR-A1U (the 1/3" Mini HDV) for the documentary footage, and also for casting and location scouting. It has the XLR audio module, and a minimally workable (crappy) shotgun. I've tinkered and gotten acceptable (but not great) audio from it for basic interviewing. I'm sure if I boom the mic (and go to a cardioid for the indoor interviews) it will get better.

We are (probably hopefully please) going to have an experienced sound man on the set. But with the low budget, reliability may be an issue. (Basically, based on prior experience, I expect people may or may not bother to show up). So I am provisioning an audio kit that we will use for the entire production (for consistency of equipment capabilities no matter who shows up) and also in case the audio guy(s) opt out without telling anyone.

So now for my questions (I've already been digging around the mountain of "which mic" discussions here, at the store, and elsewhere).


QUESTION: What specific qualities of a ME66 (the most shotgun the budget can bear) would make it preferable to a NTG2 (and in what circumstances)? Are the circumstances where you would prefer the NTG2? If I use the NTG2 for all shotgun scenarios, would the guys in post be thinking "he should have bought the ME66" or is it less obvious than that? Would you say the NTG2 is closer to the shotgun included with the camera (assuming both are handled correctly, which the included mic seldom is), or closer to the ME66?


QUESTION: Starting from the basic camera with the included (crappy) shotgun, which of the following would be the most improvement: a) Using a Rode NTG2 microphone with the builtin micpre or b) Sound Devices MixPre with the manufacturers mic?


QUESTION: My understanding is that the NTG2 is less selective (wider field) than the ME66 (but the specs don't exactly give that spec) If I can't be assured of a great boom operator, would I be better to use the less selective mic, leaving a larger margin or error? Or would the better ME66 help compensate for the less experienced operator? (I think in terms of cars. Giving an indy car to a new driver isn't going to compensate for their lack of experience... it's only going to get them killed quicker. He would actually go around Daytona faster (get better results) in Honda civic that suits his skills.)


QUESTION: If the budget can't bear both the ME66 and the SoundDesigns MixPre, should I go with the NTG2 and the MixPre, or should I get the ME66 and use the camera micpre? Or is there a less expensive field Mixer that doesn't suck? What is the best tradeoff for "general results" ie the most common scenes, simple indoor set and simple outdoor scene w/ boom. Is the money better spent on a better mic, or a field mixer?


Seriously, I hope I don't have to train a PA and point him at the actors... but you never know so I have to learn all I can about this stuff.
Thanks for your patience.

John-Paul Miller

 

[Oleg 2]

buy one hyper octava , one rode ntg-1( why do you need extra weight ?), pass on me -66 ( and the rode crap if you find used 4073) ,

now you can work interials with octava on the boom and the rode on the camera or opposite way when you shoot outside , both of them would be better then the plastic **** on your camera

the mix pre is nice , but i dont know if the camera inputs are working well with line levels , i actually didnt work with that one , i remeber that the 150 liked the mic input more ( there is no real line input on the camera just a pad in between), so if you can find used wend2 it might be better since it has mic outs .
check what do you have when you put the camera in alc mode since this made the sound on 150 and 170 much cleaner( its hard limiter with fixed gain input not automatic gain control - if its like 150)
you can also look for used me 80 with k-3u module , very nice sounding microphone - goes for 200-250 on eBay

 

[Noiz2]

Oleg,
Do you really like the ME80? I had two sets that I sold . I didn't use them much and I didn't think they sounded as good as the 4073 that the studio picked up. My plan was to get a 4073 but it hasn't happened yet and in the mean time I have acquired yet another ME80 (but with the k-2u body). I used an NTG-1 on a short shoot, it seemed pretty nice but I really did very little recording with it so it's hard to say if it was the mic or the circumstances. But it didn't suck.

My opinion on the pre etc is that the pre makes a BIG difference, but I am not familiar with that camera so maybe it wouldn't be that huge a difference?? I would follow Oleg's advice on these things though, he has a bunch more production experience than I do.

 

[Oleg 2]

i like the me 80 still have one that work regularly on studential films and bring some bread , never compered it to the 4073 head to head but it definitely sounding better then the 66 and the rode which is another cheap trash -it almost neumann as they state

 

[500lb Productions]

I was reading a linked article by Fred Ginsburg...

When talking about outdoor shotguns, he mentions the 4071 and also the 4073a as excellent performers.

But for indoors he ALSO mentions the 4073a as a good performer due to its wider acceptance angle and good rejection.

That means that (to my ears) the 4073a will perform acceptably indoors and outdoors???

Granted, a special purpose mic would probably do better in each case (especially indoors)... but a 4073a should in theory, get the job done with good (if not stunning) results.

Can anyone agree or disagree with this?

 

[timapter]

im not sure what fred ginsburg was getting at seeing as he is a serious name in the audio industry but a hyper will almost always outperform a shotgun in a small reflective space. Sometimes the 4073a on an interior will give not "good" but rather "okay-ish" audio.

Get two mics, and you wont regret it.