Film school is even worse than art school (Guardian story)

Education is never a waste of time, whether it's self-education or formal university education. It's all about what you take from it. I learned more about writing by punding out a few hundered short stories than I ever did in formal creative writing classes. However, I did learn from those classes and they were invaluable. I didn't go to film school, but I would go if money and time were not an issue for me.
 
I live in Barcelona....
musically we are different...
but soccerwise we are bloodbrothers
Ronaldinho is our common bond!
VISCA EL BARÇA!
 
I wish I could have seen that Barcelona/Arsenal match! My cable TV in the states didn't show it.

I love Barcelona. I've only spent a week there, but I can't wait for the chance to go back.
 
Yeah, soccerbrothers! Too bad my local team sucks right now... They got me so frustrated, even the world cup is going to have a different taste...

Never been to Barcelona, it must be kickass!
 
Film school is not for everyone. It's true you can be succesful with or without it, but that goes for ANYTHING.

I went to Film school and can honestly tell you that I am not the same person I was when I first started. I was very simple and narrow minded, much like a lot of the posts I see here. The education I recieved there was invaluable and I am happy that I went.

Education is key to success.
 
you don't need a BA/MFA degree to go to hollywood and work in the film business. a degree is much more then just learning about how to make a film and you learn/study many other subjects then just the area of "film" ... one of the unique things about FILM business =there are many roads one can take to get to the same place .. I have a Film degree and when i went to hollywood i took it off my resume within 2 weeks and have never listed it since on a film resume HOWEVER the education i received still continues to enriched my life year after year ...
 
And, I came to think as I watched the movie, film school may be worse than art school, because so many cosseted rich kids end up there thinking they're artists, not realising they have in fact joined glorified trade schools for the media-industrial complex. If they learn a little about camera placement and pacing and spend the majority of their time cultivating industry connections, they should be able to land a regular gig directing episodic TV in no time - a day job for life.

Since film school costs as much as a regular degree nowadays, film school is packed with precisely the people who have the fewest interesting things to say: those with parents who can sponsor them in education until they turn 30, and for whom the one transformative locale in life has been ... a college campus. Hence, in all of our recent art there is that strong, perhaps ineradicable tendency to make bad art about art, rotten films about films and tedious novels about writers.
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That is hilarious. It certainly is reminiscent of my film school alma mater.

I don't think you can generalize and say that about every film school. And what a school can give you, and you it, is too variable to put down to a black or white answer.
It depends on the institution, the person, and the temperment of the industry.

What gets me is that people (myself included) don't do enough due diligence (before signing up), into what the school "really" not "hypothetically" offers, and the environment for learning it really provides. Sometimes, the naive desire of the entrant and bullish marketing of the school give an overall false impression.

There are many paths to fulfilling a dream, and I wouldn't discount any of them. Just walk in with eyes wide open, and look realistically at what the school provides. :beer:


PS - Was anyone elses school simillar to the one described above ?
 
I'm going to UNLV in Las Vegas and majoring in their film program. I don't think I'd do graduate school there, because their program is pretty under-financed, but it's certainly better than me doing everything on my own at a college without a film program, ya know? :)

Regarding dedicated film schools like you guys are talking about, I'm unsure of how I feel. On one hand, I've heard some Hollywood folks don't very much care for filmschool students, certainly college graduates will do better than not, but filmschool students are apparently another thing entirely. On the other hand, I'm not sure whether I'd be useful to a film studio unless I was at the top directing or doing an assistant position (ie. assistant director, assistant DP, ect.) Because, quite frankly, I don't know what the different jobs of a film crew are actually supposed to do. I'm going to be a Junior in August and I'll be taking advanced film classes, maybe I'll learn then.

But as far as film school goes afterwards, I wouldn't be against going just for the added experience, but then again, I want to get into it while I'm still young (I plan on doing some acting too :cool:). My opinion is that some people could use film school and others are okay enough to go without it. Look at Robert Rodriguez and Sam Raimi, those guys were making films all the time in their youth before hitting it big. Those guys probably could have gone ahead without film school but they went anyway, whether they finished or not. Now look at them, they're living like FAT RATS in the industry! :)
 
Beautifully-written article! I agree on many points yet some i am not certain about. I am going to film school next year. We'll see, i guess.
 
rainberg said:
When all the great films were made in the 30's, 40's, 50's and even the 60's, how many of those film makers went to film school?
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It was all basically an apprentice system, founded on nepotism, with rigid
union rise through the ranks advancement.

On every 'big' job I've ever worked, the folks I worked with were one or more
of the following:

a. Film school educated.
b. Ivy league grads that had deep pockets but 'ran away and joined the circus'.
c. Children/neices/nephews of industry people, California born and bred.
d. Transplants that arrived in California, who had made their names
in other markets and 'networked' in.

Hollywood is not made up of the 'best and the brightest'... it's really just
the 'most attractive and the most tenatious.'
 
i only know about LA film schools AFI, UCLA, USC ..
along with your education ( you don't need to get the degree ) you may get to ride on other students coat tails ? ... look at how many persons George Lucas took for a ride on his coat tails that he knew from USC.. many other persons that have "made it" take along friends they meant in film schools with their success .... these schools have real film makers/ top persons working in the industry come into their schools to teach/ give workshops ... so the opportunity for networking is a PLUS/must ...
when the AFI has student screenings more then 50% of the viewers are from the industry looking for new talent ...

i went to a small state college. when i started working in the LA business anybody that went to my college that came to LA was invited out to whatever set i was working on within 48hrs of their arrival ... 90% of those that did come to LA ( 82-92) were working within a month the other 10% didn't have it = networking .. Hollywood is who you know ...
 
I just finished college, and although my school didn't really have a real film program, I did get the chance to take a number of film classes, make some 16mm shorts, and get the experience of shooting with a crew. I find this article pretty ridiculous. School can be incredibly valuable for some, and utterly pointless for others. You can't just pigeonhole the idea of film school as being a waste. There are other variables at play.

There's no question, I learned the most when I was just out there shooting. I don't think anybody questions that, but without school I wouldn't have had the access to the equipment (or at least wouldn't have had the know-how of where to get access) nor would I have known the other 15 to 20 people we had as a crew on everything. Because of scholarships, I wasn't paying a whole lot of tuition, so the cost of renting all of the equipment that I had access to would have been a heck of a lot more than what I paid for school. For me, shooting projects in school was cheaper and more practical than it would have been shooting them on my own. Now, over the four years I've been in school, I've put the money I would have been spending on making my own shorts into a G5 and an HVX, and I was STILL able to shoot stuff.

By all means, if you don't need to go to film school, don't go. But don't knock it, because for some it is a huge benefit.
 
In all honesty, I am jealous of those whom get to attend school for their choice of career path. I didn't get to go to college after high school, for film or for graphic design/art... and I really wanted to.

However, it is not my path. I just moved to California a year ago and now have a pretty decent position at a broadcasting company doing things that I know how, and I did not come with a dregree. (I am salaried, not hourly).

I'd like to say that those bashing school should not. It's just another way to walk.

I won't walk that way, and I might not make it to the big leagues, but it still wasn't my path. I just won't bash it.
 
In my experience, some formal education is invaluable in the future. That said, I have met all types and Im sorry but there are the can dos in the world that find a way no matter their background. But certainly film school has to have some value (I have an MBA in finance so I have no idea).
 
Couple quick thoughts.

I interviewed a guy who works for Disney and freelances that went to USC filmschool for both graduate and undergraduate. He told me the following about filmschool:

"Save your money buy equipment."


I've also talked to graduate of the Natural History and Sciencefilmmaking program at Montana State University. Guess what she told me:

"Save your money buy equipment."

Lastly, I heard recently about a former student of my documentary film teacher (a 6-month certificate program) who after graduating from his program went to the very prestigious Stanford masters' in documentary filmmaking program for $60,000/year.

Guess what he's doing. Some freelancing and he just bought a DVX100. Just think what he could have bought for 60,000 dollars.

In my experience if you want to learn a field find the cheapest and most efficient way to learn it (barring fields where a degree is a set in stone requirement ie medicine, law, etc.). For film, there are lots of educational opportunities out there don't entail a full-on degree.

Fine arts degrees are a waste of time. If your going to go to the trouble of going to college get your degree in something that you can atleast use to support your filmmaking.
 
The degree/paper is useless... but in your own examples.. only one of them
you mentioned is working at the top level.. the film grad.

Things are changing, but they arent changing all that fast.
 
I think a lot of people just aren't ready after high school to work independently, buy all their own equipment, go the Tarantino path. For me, film school served as a buffer zone between high school and real world. I had time away from home, on my own, but still in a structured environment. Plus, my parents would never let me blow the cost of tuition on something as open-ended as getting my own equipment. And right out of high school, I wouldn't have known what to buy anyway!

The flip side: I spent 2 years in a fairly reputable film school and all along thought it was lame. 95% of the students made complete crap. The teachers had nothing to show for their "20+ years of working in the industry". I felt like I was wasting my time. So this summer, I decided to transfer to a much more modest school in an area where I can easily find work on crews. I feel great about my decision...mainly because I won an $8500 grant and used it for a DVX!
 
Film school can be very important if taught properly. Some need structure for learning.
Reading a book can be very informative. If you can learn that way.
Having an MFA, BS, AS, Certification, etc., is fantastic. It shows you have the dedication.
To say that film school is pointless is just stupid. Education is never pointless. I've taught many a Grip/Electric that have impressed the hell out of me in the field. I was proud to contribute to their knowledge especially when I end up working with them and I don't have to describe how to do a "trucker's hitch" right in the middle of a shoot.

With that said, I'll say this. No matter how you got the knowledge, if you don't know how to apply it, you words aren't worth a damn. WORKING LOTS OF SHOOTS with a base knowledge that you continue to feed is the best way to make it.

Clean some of the smoke out of this thread.
 
taubkin said:
What about making your own tunes, that sound as "good" as his?

There is a difference in studying, and practicing. Yes you can practice alone, but can you study? Some people can, some can't.

I am graduating this year, and my university is public, wich means I dind't have to "waste" my money with it. Of course I had to bust my ass studying to pass the exams and get in, but I'm surprised how people still think education is a waste of money. Take it seriously and it won't be.
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There is also a significant difference between 'music' played as a repertoire, and creating music. There are many professionals who have only played other people's works, and become famous for doing so. 'Creativity' there is determined in interpretation and presentation.

I don't know if the world could stand a yearly performance schedule of 100 'Star Wars Episode I', re-performances in film... but this does point to the difference between film making and music or play performance art... heck in the West we are still performing 2500 year old dramas and comedies... the sex slapstick satyricons are for the most part lost... but I digress...

However, as an exercise it would be interesting to 'refilm' some of the now classics as student projects, or perhaps scenes from them.

What would the 'fair use' principle hold for a student effort along such lines...
 
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