Hollywood Hack Composers

Aaron Marshall

Aaron Marshall

Well-known member
Ok, I thought I would make a thread about some of the worst composers working in Hollywood today. Some just boggle my mind at how weak their scores are, yet they're getting paid the big bucks.

Some of these guys are decent at making music, just not as a whole score. I'm not saying they're not talented musicians; they're just not talented film score artists.

Marco Beltrami comes to mind... I'll think of more soon

If you find a name listed that you feel shouldn't be, list the composers strong points and film references to educate the naysayers.
 
Last edited:
James Horner and his "Troy"
Now..

Granted the dude only had like a month to do it, but common'.. Can we get away from Willow and Braveheart?

I like some of beltrami's stuff. Not say that I'm huge fan of his latest terminator, but I think its partly due to the directors.. THey probably are chodes and have 'temp scores' placed in.. "I WANT WIllow AGain. With a TOUCH of braveheart and Titanic"

/j
 
Yeah, Horner hasn't been very inspired for a while now. I call those "Payin' the mortgage" scores. When that's your sole motivation, that's very dull.

I'm looking at Beltrami's imdb listing and I can't find a single movie that I can remember a theme from. The sad part is, I've seen about 85% of the films on his list.

I think Horner could still write a wonderful score if he could just get some wind in his sails.
 
Ok here's another one. I don't want to call Zimmer a hack, but I feel he's very overrated. He rips himself off as bad as Horner does, but he's more sly about it. I can spot his scores a mile away. He has done some thing I really like. I don't like anything Beltrami has ever done. That's the difference.
 
Noct said:
Ok here's another one. I don't want to call Zimmer a hack, but I feel he's very overrated. He rips himself off as bad as Horner does, but he's more sly about it. I can spot his scores a mile away. He has done some thing I really like. I don't like anything Beltrami has ever done. That's the difference.
Click to expand...

but ya know.. I'm a Big Zimmer fan and I would say most of my inspirations have come from his work and its apparent... you can find his "personality" in his work and you recognize it. Same with Horner. Gezus H Damn he's got some beautiful moments, but its that classical rip of Four notes.. Dun Da Duh dunnn. (from some classical ....***ski guy)

alot of not remembering scores could be good to. The music doesn't take away from the movie and its all about the director at that point.

/j
 
I can remember some of Zimmer's stuff. There are definitely points in a score that should blend seemlessly with the film. A memorable score can do that. It will heighten it. John Williams is the master of this. You know the force theme. That's such a memorable theme that doesn't step on the onscreen happenings. It elevates it to a new level.

What are some of your favorite Zimmer scores?
 
Graeme Revell is someone I deeply admire. I love his score for "The Crow", especially "pain and retribution". Most of his other scores, especially beyond 2000 have been hack material. I think I even read an interview that said something like, and I'm paraphrasing, "don't kid yourself if you're a film composer. you're not an artist, you are a craftsmen." I think that is total bullshit. You need to be both. They're not mutually exclusive. BT said something similar in an interview. I'm sorry, but um, maybe you should go find another career if your attitude has gotten that bad toward what you're doing. You wouldn't be doing anyone a service, let alone yourself by continuing down that bitter path.
 
Johnny Williams. (ya, I'm cool enough to call him Johnny).. He's definitely a master, but you know what.. He knows where and when to put in a them and he knows that people are stupid and can only humm a few notes before they look to the birds and loose the sound *snap* just like that. PLUS... a good editor knows when to bring up the music too. Sooo many times I've seen editors and mixer think that sound FX are more important. (which, sometimes they are)(or directors for that matter) For instance.. Batman Begins. Zimmer/Howard's score during the first fight escape from the blown up hut on the snow side mountain was COMPLETELy flushed out by soundfx. Granted, I got the OST before i saw the movie and I loved that part. BUT... alas, it was lost in the mix. Great ideas, great hits, just couldn't hear it. So... ruined that part of the movie for me.

Zimmer.. Gladitor is amazing.. MI:II's "Rejection" is beautiful, Thin Red Line's Journey to the line.. All great stuff. Ya. I think its his style.

but, I think he's got great range.. look at "Spanglish"... Its completely different than his norm, yet I still think it was key to the movie. (although the general public would have no awareness of the score's exsistence) Our curse eh?

OOoh.. speaking of the 'force theme'... Again, how many star wars films are there? How many Indiana Jones... Its a given.. the same music keeps coming back and yes... you are going to recognize the music and it'll go down in history and ever more implanted into your head.

/j
 
Noct said:
Graeme Revell is someone I deeply admire. I love his score for "The Crow", especially "pain and retribution". .
Click to expand...

Yes, the Crow was amazing work. Doesn't help it was revisted in the Pearl Harbor trailer and It made me go watch the movie again and appreciate the music. (pre score 'liker')

Also, Graeme's... "Red Planet". Just shows his diversity.

/j
 
Yes, I noticed the Batman Begins score being drowned by sound effects. You're the only other person I know of that noticed that. I thought I was going crazy or the sound in the theater was bad.

Oh I forgot about MI:II. Another score that was pretty good was True Romance, which I think was ripped off by BT in monster, and BT thought he was being so original. I also really liked Crimson Tide. Yet I still feel Zimmer is overrated. I'm not saying he's awful, or retarded. Just overrated. I think almost all the guys over at media ventures are overrated composers. They're like canned laughter. Ok maybe that was a bit harsh, but I thought it was a fairly good and comical analogy.

I strongly disagree with the Star Wars theory you have. I saw all three LOTR's and thought the themes were so so. The music worked. I like Howard Shore, just not from LOTR's. If you had never seen any of the Star Wars before and watched the scene with Yoda in the swamp showing Luke the power of the force, well... you get the picture.

BTW, I like your tunes. I think you have elements of Horner, Zimmer, and definitely your own Justin Durban twist. Which is important. I think you're probably more capable of writing a large theme than Zimmer.
 
Last edited:
Edgen said:
Yes, the Crow was amazing work. Doesn't help it was revisted in the Pearl Harbor trailer and It made me go watch the movie again and appreciate the music. (pre score 'liker')

Also, Graeme's... "Red Planet". Just shows his diversity.

/j
Click to expand...

I didn't know that about the Pearl Harbor trailer. That's weird because in Zimmer's special version of the Pearl Harbor trailer I loved the music. It was gorgeous and a great theme. I was set on becoming a big Zimmer fan after that, until guess what? I saw :gasp: pearl harbor and the main score was a dumb watered down version of the Pearl Harbor trailer music Zimmer did. Imagine the trailer score was a great bungee cord, then he stretched it to damaging lengths and applied it over the movie. :(
 
ha!! That's kinda what got me hooked on Zimmer's work too.
Ya know.. Its funny, that trailer music was actually (i could be wrong) two tracks that were 'linked' together. If you listen to the 'atoll' and 'journey to the line', they are combined for the trailer. (again.. me thinks..) then, someone from the inside knew this and thought it would be great to combine the two or do a time shift to get them to work.

I've found myself doing that for a few of my tracks too. Just recycling the harmonies and the after effects putting in later.

Clever eh? ya. I thought so. Cheap. ya. I think so too.

as for starwars.. Again, it was such a good movie and inspired us so much that we learn to watch it over and over and we expect to hear it. you are not telling me that if you heard that piece for the first time, you could immediately humm it right afterwards? My parents 'baby-sat' me and my brothers to the triology, so course we knew everything back to back.

Ooh.. Narnia.. That'a OST that is coooll.. but, its like theme got put on repeat. Which.. was good I think cause I walked out of the theatre humming the tune. That... to me is a successful score. (well... almost)

/j
 
Edgen said:
ha!! That's kinda what got me hooked on Zimmer's work too.
Ya know.. Its funny, that trailer music was actually (i could be wrong) two tracks that were 'linked' together. If you listen to the 'atoll' and 'journey to the line', they are combined for the trailer. (again.. me thinks..) then, someone from the inside knew this and thought it would be great to combine the two or do a time shift to get them to work.

I've found myself doing that for a few of my tracks too. Just recycling the harmonies and the after effects putting in later.

Clever eh? ya. I thought so. Cheap. ya. I think so too.

as for starwars.. Again, it was such a good movie and inspired us so much that we learn to watch it over and over and we expect to hear it. you are not telling me that if you heard that piece for the first time, you could immediately humm it right afterwards? My parents 'baby-sat' me and my brothers to the triology, so course we knew everything back to back.

Ooh.. Narnia.. That'a OST that is coooll.. but, its like theme got put on repeat. Which.. was good I think cause I walked out of the theatre humming the tune. That... to me is a successful score. (well... almost)

/j
Click to expand...

I read an interview with Zimmer that said he scored the trailer before anything else. It was the first thing he scored. I guess the freshness was used up on that trailer.

Yes, I most definitely could hum the force theme right afterwards. Keep in mind, I'm super cool like :costumed-smiley-047 I actually wasn't too big of a fan of star wars until I was about 13 or 14. I had always been a fan of the music. My parents practically forced (no pun intended) me to watch Star Wars as a young kid. I made fun of it saying things like "Luke is such a nerd." and "this is dumb" but the music stuck in my head. Movies rarely do that to me these days.

I even remembered the love theme from Attack of the Clones after seeing it one time. I could transcribe it into score. The original themes were even better. John Williams is just a genius.

You can't tell me that if you played Super Mario Brothers you couldn't hum that afterwards?

Narnia was cool. I take back the Media Ventures thing when it comes to Harry Gregson Williams. He did a great job on Sinbad I thought.

Another Zimmer score I liked that most people seem to hate is Hannibal. Though, like Lion King, he didn't write the really juicy stuff in it.
 
dj200423 said:
haha it's the edgen and noct thread.
Click to expand...

he started it. :(

Super Mario brothers? Of course you can hum it, cause you were dying like every 2 minutes playing the same damn board till you could play with your eyes closed. Its simply and audio/visual thing that people are just 'accostumed to'. It gets planted in your head and your mind relates to it.

The pearl Harbor trailer? Nope.. that was a track, "Journey to the Line" and was the bitter sweet scene where they just nuke everyone and wipe them all out in one massive carnage. I love that type of music btw.. When the visuals can turn your stomache inside out but yet there are haunting notes gracing the silver screen above. To such chaos is beauty.

Ya know.. I listened to hannibal a lot and after a while, it just got.. eh. Put me in a hateful mood. Which, I suppose is good. It just wasn't one of those where I could listen over and over again.

Harry rocks. Yes. OOOH>. have you seen Team America??! Friggin' loved his soundtrack on that. and.. it was done in like a month too. Maybe less.

/j
 
Yeah it's cool. Edgen and I are old buds from like the late 90's.

Koji Kondo, the composer for Super Mario, Zelda and so on is probably one of the best melodic composers of the 20th century. He's up there with Mancini. Just because something repeats doesn't mean it beats you in the head. If something is able to repeat with such grace it's on an entirely different level.

Hmm I still don't know about that Pearl Harbor theme. You could be right, but I thought I remember reading an article where Zimmer did that way before anything else. He may have used a very similar theme, but it was paced differently. Are you 100% sure? In all fairness regarding the Hannibal score, I only listened to it a few times. I guess I could see the "hatefulness" of it. I never looked at it like that. I thought it was intense.

Team America hahaha. What would you do? If someone told you to fight for freedom? Would you Answer the call? Or run away like a little p@#sy? I loved that fake country song they did. I listen to that and really get into sometimes. The steel guitar makes me laugh so hard. I also love America F#CK YEAH!. It's funny where they say McDonalds, and the crowd says MCDONALDS! Then they say "Bath and Body Works" and the crowd barely responds.
 
Hmm. Interesting thread. I'm a Hans Zimmer fan. I love all of his stuff - it's fantastic. There are a lot of composers now going for a very similar thing to Zimmer, and as a result people are just saying "hans zimmer is a hack, every score is the same".

Sure he borrows and reuses his own ideas, but it's hard not to when you've developed a voice for yourself. I listen to his music all the time, I find it really inspiring.

I don't like everything by John Williams, but I do like a great deal of it. His work on Star Wars is fantastic, especially some of those themes...

Noct I have to agree with you on the Koji Kondo comment, he's written some very memorable melodies. :)

-Chris
 
Ya know.. talking about 'hacking and music'.. I work for X-Ray Dog Music. (Trailers for LOTR, war of the worlds, Pirates2, munich, etc, etc. etc..) and I asked them a similar question... "Do you think people would say.. 'OOh great.. another over the top hollywood production and some crazy over the top trailer music with gothic voices to top it all off...' " And I had asked if there would ever be a shift in the way film trailer music is set. Will it go electronic.. will it be intimate piano, or haunting ambience? Prolly not, cause that really doesn't get your heart thumping to really see a movie.

On the other hand, some of that music is really great and the 'editors' to the trailers do a wonderful job at the edits and can find the perfect music to fit the mood of the movie. The latest trailer that comes to my mind is the "Ghost Rider". Its starts out with a bang adn all the sudden some really wonderful sweeping music kicks and all the sudden my attitude was... "Damn.. i'd like to see this film now". (then it just ends dumb with the skeleton head on Nick Cage.

So.. will Hollywood trailers continue to be the typical "hollywood trailers" and will the music ever change? I say yes.. cause the cues that I got to record with those guys at X-Ray Dog are simply amazing and are just one of those music tracks that make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside. With the right visuals, the right editor and the right director willing to trust his editor, you've got a great campaign of a great product. That's why they continue to use the "Aliens" OST simply because of the high octain visual that keeps coming back of Ripley flushing the alien out into space. Subconciously... it speaks.

Speaking of themes.. The dude from Final Fantasy is on up there too. But then again, look at what he started working with musically wise. The Nintendo system was limited in memory and he was forced to use as minimialistic instruments as possible. So.. what do you have to work with? Bingo boys (and few girls lurking the forums....) Melodies.

/j
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top