Ridiculous Handling noise CCM41

ScoobySounds

ScoobySounds

Well-known member
I've found the handling noise on my new Schoeps CCM41 unusable! whats going on? I was prepared for it being a little more unforgiving than, say, the 416 or whatever, but the way this sounds to me is that there can't a boom op in the land with a steady enough hand. Its got the conn box, and even trying it with the bass cut all the way up at 240Hz, AND wearing a rycote windshield on each hand :D (just testing to soften movement!) I still can't make it useable.

The only thing I can think of is that I got the Flat version rather than the roll off version, so maybe cutting some low before the signal gets to the wire might help, but I'm feeling right now that I've just wasted my money on a serioulsy expensive plant mic.

got a big doco coming up that i need it for.. at least I can still record music with it.
 
the 41s is good fore close miking only , the low fq roll of been compensated by proximity effect , dont work for normal distance work .
try another suspention , better bands for the clip , check if the cable not making noise inside the rycote , usually 80hz roll of is enouth to eliminate boom rumbling noise ( around 60-70 nz)
 
Yeah man... I've bragged up the 416's INCREDIBLE LACK OF HANDLING NOISE a thousand times! Look up any of my old posts on the 416... that mic is a lead pipe compared to EVERYTHING ELSE!

That's why I laugh when people say they're afraid of handling noise with the Oktava... sooner or later there are 2 facts that everyone has to accept if they want good sound... you gotta' have phantom power (done)... and you gotta' accept the responsibility to control handling noise!

Recently I was shooting serious run 'n gun doco stuff... and we had 4 mics in use... 2 of them were Oktavas in a stereo setup on a boom... now I've NEVER had a single PEEP of handling noise when I'm the boom op... maybe a bump when I change lengths or first put the boom in the air... after that, nothing. Well this other guy was supposed to have sound experience and I can't BELIEVE how much handling noise he has on the tracks!!! (I could type a thousand exclamation points!!!)

There is a big difference between one boom op and another... if you got a cheap pole then make sure the cable is secured around it... use gloves... and don't act like you're fencing instead of booming... in all of life smoothness is a virtue... and never moreso then for cameramen and boom ops.

First take a look at your gear... did you try to get a cheap mount? How about the pole... aluminum? Cable secured around the pole? Is the mic SECURE in the bands? Are they the kind of bands that can be TWISTED prior to inserting the mic... therefor holding the mic much more solidly in place? Have you tried gloves if you're using an aluminum pole?

Once you check all that off the list... if you still can't control handling noise with an 80hz cutoff then you won't be able to handle booming any mic other then a 416.

Wait a minute... now that I think about it you're right! That mic sucks for handling noise... in fact it's a total piece of crap... tell you what friend... I'll do you a huge favor and take that thing off your hands. :)
 
MattinSTL said:
I'll do you a huge favor and take that thing off your hands. :)
Click to expand...
hehe.. nice try matey! :D

On the first day I got the mic I was doing a scene in a kitchen, so thought, great, i'll test it out! my boom op was a studio based sound engineerI work on music with, and got I got him on board cos hes got an incredible set of ears on him, but he's definately not the most steady handed guy - its no secret (and hes got terrible eyesight, so sometimes he couln't even see where the mics pointing!, anyway.. he's studio!) so when he held the schoeps i thought whaoa WTF! so I took it off him and I had a go, and literally this thing picks up the elbow joints creeking in my arm!! NO JOKE. and no - i dont have dodgy joints:) ..and like you, i never get a peep of handling noise on my boom work usually. so i held up production and hung the schoeps and put a 416 on the boom instead, and been very upset ever since.
:violin:



right - lets see, i'll go through your checklist.

- my pole is a VDB.

- i tried wooly gloves which usually just slip over the boom and work great, but every slip was transferred so in this case bare hands was better since skin moved less on the boom. like i said the rycote fluffy worked better, but still not great. (and too ridiculous for words.)

- the mount is the rycote one I got with the basket and windjammer, not cheap.

- the cable is very short into the conn box and xlr'd to the pistol grip and i've fixed it so that they don't touch anything, or each other. I did some tests for the pistol-mixer xlr - wrapping it firmly round the boom as usual versus just letting it drop, and there was no improvement so i'm satisfied that its not this thats the issue.

- the 4 bands are tight and the mic is firmly in its clip.


Short of trying Cod Liver Oil for my apparently creeky bones, i'm at a loss.
 
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try Bayer dt 48 - if you still here it, you have serius problemma:)
try with out con box -lemo to xlr directly, use cloth cable

the cable might be a real problem , if it schoeps cable it is completely not good for that kind of mounting
check if you can replace it with cloth soft cable
,check your ring, if it sits tight enough
ambient sound do have a floater which sits between the mic suspention and the boom , might help
 
Is this normal for a Schoeps George? I've never heard of this by anyone before... Scooby's got the checklist down... so what gives? Maybe a CUT1 filter needed then gain up at the cam or mixer?

I don't think this would be Hollywood's most popular mic if it's got unusable handling noise for most people.

What gives?
 
the ccm is compact mic , you cant insert cut one in the middle , the mic doesnt come apart , the cable which attached directly to ccm or the lemo version is the same cable used for collet cables , very stiff and hard .
what can i suggest is to use cloth cable between the lemo and xlr , make sure you have enouth until the secure point on the handle and the cable is not tight .

i hardly worked with that mic over the boom ( ms setups only for sound fx)was using mostly for music applications .
why did you buy that mic , the regullar cmc is much better for freedom choices cut -1, collet , better rf rejection , swivel and less handling noise of course .
 
The CCM41 is not the standard used on booms, the MK41 is. Theoratically the CCM41 could work, I think. Oleg's points will probably help. Mainly keep that collet cable protected, isolated, and loose. My guess is that is where the handling noise is coming from.


Cheers
 
Hey wabbit, You think it could be worth getting back to the company I bought it from and exchanging for the CMC with MK41? .. they are good and should be able to do it, if this is the problem.
 
None of that matters... he's got the wrong mic.

I can't believe I mixed that up... the whole time I was thinking, "what's wrong with this guy?"

If he can get the other for just a little more cash then it's an urgent situation to just forget everything else and get the 641.
 
MattinSTL said:
... "what's wrong with this guy?"
Click to expand...

Lots besides.:happy:



righto i'll be on to it today! I can't believe the company sold me it knowing I was going to be putting it on a boom. It doesn't seem clear to me (and the guys here) that the mic is wrong, I just thought it'd be a the whole-compact version of the MK41.

from now on, tell your friends, this mic sucks on a boom! :)

I'll let you know what happens. thanks fellas!
 
it is indeed short version of the cmc+mk41 and have identical sound characteristics , before you before you trade it check your suspension/cable connection and your boom , schoeps makes 60hz 36 db/octave filter which might help allot
 
matthewd5 said:
one thing, you mentioned how the bands are real tight.

have you tried loosening them?

matthew
Click to expand...

ok, just tried taking the twist out of each of the four bands, then tried just two of the bands and no diff.

ExileOnTheMainStreet said:
before you trade it check your suspension/cable connection and your boom
Click to expand...

check, check and check. also tried using the original stiff schoeps cable (so without conn box) and surprisingly there was still no difference.. which is odd.. i would've expected the handling noise to get worse when bypassing the conn, but it doesn't seem to be doing a sausage.
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**NEWS** Spoke to the guy from the company, and he's just now ringing the schoeps chap, reckons this is news to him and that he's sold many of these mics for booming purposes. he's gonna get back to me before he'll agree to an exchange.

watch this space.
 
i'm now dealing direct with the guy at schoeps which is good because the dealer reckons i'm as stupid as all you guys did at first. :) he sent me this email after me telling him that I was going against other advice (you guys) by replacing the CCM.

"
The more I think about this and look into it the more sure I am that there
is nothing actually wrong with the mic you have. I've just had one of my
local customers in here and he's had the CMC6 + MK41 for about 18 months
now and he describes exactly the same thing that you have. If he moves his
hand
too quickly on the pole he hears it. It's basically that it is a very
sensitive microphone which is how you get the very detailed sound quality
but the trade off is that it has to be handled very gently. (The other plus
point of course is the size and weight)

I don't know why your friends think that the CMC + capsule would be any
better, it isn't unless used with the CUT1 so I think the answer for you, as
you suggest is to change what you've got for the low cut version.
Click to expand...
"
move hand TOO QUICKLY? .. I mean AT ALL! I even send him a recorded test of what i'm talking about. which had an example of me rotating the boom, and clearly hearing my wrist creek, and another example of me simply lifting my thumb off the boom, NOT tapping (i must stress) and a clear 'thud' can be heard..
So anyway, if he thinks this is normal, then i'm glad i'm not dealing with him anymore


So, alas, i'm getting a replacement CCM. I know I know, you guys here have said to get the CMC6 and MK41 but i'm gonna give this bass cut version a try, since all the experts here reckon the CCM is always used on poles without the problems i'm describing. and like
you said timapter, the mic might be screwed, since nobody reports nothing like as bad as what i'm experiencing. perhaps a hyper-sensitised low frequency response?

so i packed mine off on friday, and he's sent a replacement to me, should get it soon. i'll tell you how it goes!

maybe i should get them on this forum for a scrap!:D
 
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