Film school is even worse than art school (Guardian story)

Josh_Boelter

Josh_Boelter

Well-known member
This Guardian article is an interesting read. I didn't go to film school but I did go to art school, and the characters in "Art School Confidential" are right on the money. Although I agree with certain points in the article (and in Zwigoff's movie), I enjoyed my time in college and think it was a worthwhile experience. Anyway, check out the Guardian piece if you're interested.

Cheers,

Josh
 
That's right, film schools are waste of time and money. Just volunteer on sets,
watch many movies, and read couple of books. Wish I knew this few years ago. I've only spent $6k canadian in 2 years, but still....
 
I have a good friend that went to AFI. He didn't and still don't want to shoot, edit, do sound or produce movies. He went to learned how to direct actors in movies. And he has learned that. And he has got to know some very talented people there. And some people need film school. I don't, but I'm willing to learn from those ......

Mainly what I have learned from him is there is a professional way of making a film instead of just showing up on a set with a camera.

If you can get on professional sets and learn, go for it! If I was in LA I would not be spending $100,000 on school. I have been buying equipment for a project we are producing in July. Hopefully after that, we will be shooting our first feature.

There are not many set in the STL.
 
serrialthrilla said:
That's right, film schools are waste of time and money. Just volunteer on sets,
watch many movies, and read couple of books. Wish I knew this few years ago. I've only spent $6k canadian in 2 years, but still....
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I'm glad to see you've found the magic formula. Let me write that down... "read a couple of books..." got it! I'm sure judging by your fame and expertise this formula will work for all of us!
 
I stated back at a local community college after a short time at the New York School of Visual Arts. I get about 6,500 bucks worth of very very low and no interest rate loans per semester. The school is very cheap and I can take 12 hours worth of film and audio production classes for less than a grand per semester....... Guess where the rest of the money goes.... Yep Dvx, Avid, After Effects, Protools, Mics, etc etc. I get all this great equipment and have learned a ton just from shooting my own films. I am working on a demo reel that hopefully will land me a nice job editing or doing visual effects somewhere. (I live in Tulsa, short of Winnercomm there is not much here) I have felt this has been a great way for me to advance in the field and get some great stuff at the same time!

P.S. I also get massive student discounts on the software wich helps out a ton!!! :)
 
zoostory said:
I'm glad to see you've found the magic formula. Let me write that down... "read a couple of books..." got it! I'm sure judging by your fame and expertise this formula will work for all of us!
Click to expand...

I can play Satriani tunes on guitar almost as well as he does, and all i did was read a few books and watch his videos and many times.
Never went to berkley or GIT....
I just practiced my ass off.
You dont need film school
Just Perseverance, determination and patience.
 
you don't "need" anything. It's just a question of the path you choose to take. And to each his own. Who are we to lay judgement?
 
Ogrus said:
I can play Satriani tunes on guitar almost as well as he does, and all i did was read a few books and watch his videos and many times.
Never went to berkley or GIT....
I just practiced my ass off.
You dont need film school
Just Perseverance, determination and patience.
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What about making your own tunes, that sound as "good" as his?

There is a difference in studying, and practicing. Yes you can practice alone, but can you study? Some people can, some can't.

I am graduating this year, and my university is public, wich means I dind't have to "waste" my money with it. Of course I had to bust my ass studying to pass the exams and get in, but I'm surprised how people still think education is a waste of money. Take it seriously and it won't be.

In film school I studied all the great films and learned to set my standards high. I met very talented people and learned to colaborate with them. I learned how to do things the right way, and I got some contacts that helped me get in some big productions in better positions than a mere PA, those were very rich learning experiences. I had the oportunity to shoot a 16mm film without spending any money, and to DP another, both with great crew made by fellow students. I' going to DP a 35mm short and direct another one that I haven't decided on the format yet. In 4 years, I went from someone who knew nothing about film to a beggining professional, and I do own it to the film school experience.

Most my prctical classes were useless, but the chances I had to work inside school were awesome, and the films I saw while I was there were great. If I knew the benefits of film school, and had no option but to pay for it, I would, without hesitating.

My favourite directors are film school alumni, and I don't really care about the films from Robert Rodrigues, for instance. To each their own, I guess.
 
I'm finishing up my MFA at a big film school right now. All I can say is. It's for some, not for others. You can succeed with or without it. But to slam it, or anything for that matter, is pure ignorance.

Who cares what you like or don't like? Just do what you believe is best for you and don't judge others for making different choices than you.

Rather than draw a line in the middle of the road, why not just unite for the common cause of wanting to make films? Besides, it's the wrong line. Film-Student vs non-Film-Student. The line is idiot versus non-idiot. I'll work with any non-idiot, film student or not, any day of the week.
 
I think it depends a lot on the film school and on the individuals previous experience. I had been making films for about five years before I decided to go to film school and what I found out was that I had already taught myself everything they were trying to teach me. On top of that, it simply wasn't a very good film program at all (University of Colorado Denver.) I was (kind of) glad to have had the experience, but I left after a semester and I learned that it definatley wasn't for me. I'm sure had I stayed I would have gotten my hands on some 16mm film equipment, but honestly I don't have much interest in it. I love digital technology and learning how to manipulate that is something I'm significantly more interested in.
 
taubkin said:
There is a difference in studying, and practicing. Yes you can practice alone, but can you study? Some people can, some can't.
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Why can't someone study without going to formal schooling? I mean saying you have to go to film school is like saying someone cannot be an artist without going to Art school and as ana rtist myself that's incorrect. It would be of benefit though for an artist to study art history and delve into some formal art education, but that could be done with or without "formal"' schooling. Don't you think.

taubkin said:
I had the oportunity to shoot a 16mm film without spending any money,
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Didn't you pay tuition?

taubkin said:
My favourite directors are film school alumni, and I don't really care about the films from Robert Rodrigues, for instance. To each their own, I guess.
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Like you said, to each his own; it may be that people beside you still like Robert Rodriguez you know.
By the way, Robert Rodriguez attended film school.


Rebel Without a Crew
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0452271878
 
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taubkin, I totally agree with you, man! we live in the same country, but we both know the difference between Sao Paulo and my city. here there´s no kind of filmmaking related education, and I don´t think it´s "no problem". i´ve read the robert rodriguez book, i´ve read cinematography books, i have tons of books about all subjects related to the filmmaking process but i can´t find people to share experiences.
 
omar, I'm just saying that there are people that can learn for themselves and people who can't. But perform a Satriani gutar solo is not a good example, of self learing, or good musical taste for that matter... (hehehe, just kidding...).

I didn't pay tuition. So it was a no brainer for me.

But it's got a lot to do with what Gumonstro is saying. Film school can give you great experiences, filmaking experiences, it's a place where you can grow a lot as a filmaker and an artist. I'm sorry but it's true.

And although it's true that artists don't need art school, it's a place where they hear critique for their preliminary work, from infromed people and that can make them grow a lot as artists. More often than not, the good recognized artists, had some form of education, being in art or related subjects (architecture, music, etc).

But did Rodrigues graduate? I though he bailed in the second year or something... I don't dislike him though. I like his attitude. Just not a huge fan of his movies. But nothing wring with what he does. And I'm sure there are people that like his work. In fact he's pretty darn sucessful.
 
taubkin said:
omar, I'm just saying that there are people that can learn for themselves and people who can't. But perform a Satriani gutar solo is not a good example, of self learing, or good musical taste for that matter... (hehehe, just kidding...).

...
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Points well taken. I'm actually all for school; I have finished a master's degree. I do think though with the arts people have a little more freedom. A traditional academic degree is excellent, but I think folks who are serious about a subject matter can learn without one too right.

About Robert Rodriguez I think he did bail though. I just wanted to clarify that he did start out in film school and was making movies since he was young, because some people think he has no history and just up and made a bootleg movie and got lucky. He has some interesting points in "Rebel Without a Crew" regarding this topic by the way.
 
taubkin said:
What about making your own tunes, that sound as "good" as his?
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That is phase number two. Now i have the "knowhow"
Now i can come up with my own tunes, maybe im the next satriani, probably not.
But i learned on my own.

I didnt go to music school, but i certainly played with other people and asked advice from other more advanced players. I just didnt sit in a class going over scales, i did that at home.
Some applies to learning cinematography. The technical part can be learnt 100% at home with a pc and books.
Save your money, buy a good camera instead of going to film school. Learn the technical stuff at home.
 
taubkin said:
But perform a Satriani gutar solo is not a good example, of self learing,
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Satriani is considered one of the worlds best guitar players. Too preform one of his solos is one of the hardest chores a aspiring musician can look up to.
To play his stuff is a perfect example of self learning... dont get it wrong man!
I have nothing to say about your musical tastes unless you're a radiohead fan : P
(being brazilian you should be a sepultura fan!)
 
hehe, I kind of like sepultura... And when I played the guitar, I heard Satriani 100%, so, yes I can relate. But even if you have the technnique, if you can only write crappy music, nobody will care for it. So you have to know harmonzation very well and that is actually more important than doing a freaking two hand in 180bpm. Or your music is just going to sound like anyone else's or even worse, like Satriani (a copy).

I'm not trying to teach you how to play guitar, of course, but let's say that everything that is written in books (and everything teachers say in film school) is not 50% of the answer. That's why the value of film school is in the experiences.

Cheers!

PS: I do like radiohead, tough... :P
 
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