Dumb Question...What exactly is a pre amp?
- Thread starter Gorilla King
- Start date
One other thought about going out from the mixer/recorder into the camera to create your scratch track. Don't bother. If all you're looking for is a scratch track, just use the built in microphone. It is good enough for your scratch track.
As far as mic selection goes, a lot of this will also depend on your boom op. If you are using an experienced boom op, then go with the mics with tighter patterns (like the 416). If your boom op does not have a lot of experience, then go with the more forgiving mics (the 4073a, for example). And, on the hypercardioid side, if you got the Octava, you may want to pick up the cardioid cap for it. Lots of people here disagree with me on this, but when I'm working with a novice boom op, I will almost always go with a cardioid over a hyper (again, wider pattern, more forgiving.) I do lose some of the hyper benefits, but I usually come out ahead this way. Again, YMMV depending on the quality of your boom op. If you know who your boom op is, you may want to try renting a couple of mics for a few days, go out with your camera and do some tests to see if he/she is up for the challenge of the tighter, higher "quality" mics.
Phil
As far as mic selection goes, a lot of this will also depend on your boom op. If you are using an experienced boom op, then go with the mics with tighter patterns (like the 416). If your boom op does not have a lot of experience, then go with the more forgiving mics (the 4073a, for example). And, on the hypercardioid side, if you got the Octava, you may want to pick up the cardioid cap for it. Lots of people here disagree with me on this, but when I'm working with a novice boom op, I will almost always go with a cardioid over a hyper (again, wider pattern, more forgiving.) I do lose some of the hyper benefits, but I usually come out ahead this way. Again, YMMV depending on the quality of your boom op. If you know who your boom op is, you may want to try renting a couple of mics for a few days, go out with your camera and do some tests to see if he/she is up for the challenge of the tighter, higher "quality" mics.
Phil
ullanta
Veteran
oneinfiniteloop said:
I just want to clarify the issue for the record, for posterity...
Mic pre's don't allow you to capture richer, less-distorted, cleaner audio. They allow you to capture audio. Without a mic pre you don't get WORSE audio - you get none (well, technically, a tiny amount. But practically, none).
The answer above applies to differences between mic pres, and likely is comparing external mic pres against the internal mic pres of the camera. Certainly, you can improve on those.
So - mic pres are NECESSARY to recording audio. And some mic pres do a better job than others. And the camera has some built in. Read most of what people are calling "mic pres" here as "external mic pres used instead of the ones in the camera".
Just a little detail. But the original question seemed to call for it.
Motivity Pictures
Member
ullanta said:
You have made some great points. And answered a lot of questions I have. As for the quote above what is the external mic pre doing that the internal mic pre of the camera is not doing? I read what you said elsewhere about the "line level" and so the "line level" of the camera just voids out any external preamp. I think you are right on, I'm just trying to get it all straight in my head. I'm a visual learner. Is there anyway to over ride the internal mic preamp on the camera? I'm shooting with the HVX to the P2 card.
Thanks for your insight.
David
ullanta
Veteran
Motivity Pictures said:
Just the opposite. "Mic level" on the camera means "I'm attaching a mic directly, so you better pre-amp it for me with whatever you have built in." "Line level" means "I'm attaching a signal that's already close to the proper level, so skip your internal preamp." So: mic level = camera preamp. line-level = external preamp.
timapter
Veteran
as for what the external mix pre is doing that the camera's isnt, they are both doing the same thing, but the components and build quality and a whole bunch of other stuff ullanta could tell you about of external mic pre's are GENERALLY SPEAKING of a better quality than those onboard a camera -
it usually boils down to external mixers basically just being more expensive and high performance mic preamps with meters on them (and granted, yes, some other stuff too
).
the preamps on cameras are just worse in terms of their stats... worse enough to hear the difference in a lot of (or even most) cases.
it usually boils down to external mixers basically just being more expensive and high performance mic preamps with meters on them (and granted, yes, some other stuff too
). the preamps on cameras are just worse in terms of their stats... worse enough to hear the difference in a lot of (or even most) cases.
oneinfiniteloop said:
It's been mentioned here that the longer the cable, the worse the quality.
I pooped my pants when I just read that... I ordered a 25 foot xlr cable from the Sound Room. I figured I needed the length for a mic boom.
How long is too long when it comes to xlr cables?
ullanta
Veteran
stabwound said:
Don't get hung up on it, man! I'm not saying it's never a concern, but sometimes mic cable quality/length is given far more importance than their relative influence on sound. In a real-world situation, the only difference you'll get between a 25' and a 6" cable is convenience. The connectors (and quality of the cable construction) will definitely outweigh issues of cable length in the sub-50' range. In general, in live situations, 200 - 300 feet of cable can be fine, except for mics with really low output (like, say, ribbon mics). The issue of WHERE the cable is (i.e., if it's running right next to an AC power line for 10 feet) is more important. But if you're comparing a 6" cable to a 25' cable coiled in the same place... don't worry. Even in extemely quiet, low-RF studios, cable quality and differences in cable length < 100' are extremely minor. In a TYPICAL situation, they're pretty meaningless. Cable construction, connector quality, cable abuse are things to worry about a lot more - things that might cause cable failure or lack of good electrical contacts.
ullanta
Veteran
That someone else can answer better than me... but as for me, I'd always have a couple of extra cables around in case of problems anyway, so you might as well vary the lengths.
300 feet? Yeah, well... for most operas, I use a 150' multichannel snake goint to the pit, and many 20-50' cables connecting the mics to that. For various reasons of both safety and appearance, the boundary mics on the stage often go through the house wiring, which is a trip of about 300 feet. It's coiling 150' of thick snake cable that's the biggest problem!
300 feet? Yeah, well... for most operas, I use a 150' multichannel snake goint to the pit, and many 20-50' cables connecting the mics to that. For various reasons of both safety and appearance, the boundary mics on the stage often go through the house wiring, which is a trip of about 300 feet. It's coiling 150' of thick snake cable that's the biggest problem!
timapter
Veteran
25 should be absolutely fine... maybe even too long - it depends on what your setup is (like do you have a mixer, are you running straight into camera etc etc). but ullanta is right, one cable is NEVER enough, because the day you need it will be the day the cable fails. and cables DO fail, its just how things are.
you should usually try carry twice as many cables as you will need on a set, they give you insurance for breakages, and extensions if you need some more reach.
you should usually try carry twice as many cables as you will need on a set, they give you insurance for breakages, and extensions if you need some more reach.