Indie Budget: $2500 lighting and sound?

John Rivers

John Rivers

Active member
Hello everyone,

I've posted asking questions before on lighting before, and I've definitely gotten alot from it, but my head is still spinning from the tons of information and choices out there. So here is my situation, in a nutshell:

I have a budget for lighting and sound of between $2000-$2500 dollars (the $500 difference is in the event that I could get far more bang for the buck if I spend a little extra on an item.)

-I would ideally also like equipment which can be built upon, and is versatile. I try and go by the theory of "buying once, but buying good". Of course, if this is an impossibility (or not the best option financially), or doesn't really apply here, then that's fine.

-As for versatility, what I mean is that I'd like to have as much creative freedom as possible (if I want to do dynamic lighting and shadows, I can, if I want to just lift the lighting level of an entire room up a bit to avoid using gain, I can, etc.). To me, this last part is really at the core of everything. Basically, I'd like my films and projects to get as much notable benefit as possible from the equipment.

-Also, I will only have one or 2 crew members MAX for most of my work (as for "hiring someone to get the best sound/lighting", believe me, I am passionate enough about this field that I've read book on cameras and lenses and other topics over the course of a few days. If education is all that separates me from a good project, I will make sure that's taken care of. :))

I know there are a TON (x10) of options for both sound and lighting, so now I ask the HVX (and DVX) community: if you had $2500 or so to spend on sound and lighting equipment, what would you go for?

Thanks in advance for everybody's input.
 
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$2500 doesn't go an inch these days towards lighting gear. a 1200w HMI is nearly 6 grand alone! about the most frustrating thing you can do is to ONLY have the choice between one or two lights you just happened to be able to afford. the true artist in you will wrestle with yourself... it's better to rent a truck full of lights and actually have access to the ones you need rather than only be able to afford one or two good lights (say, a kino 4-bank and a dedolight 650) and them not meeting your needs for every situation. although, the ones i mentioned are a terrific start.

if you live in an area where you can rent lights, then don't waste your money on buying them. it's much better to have variety in a lighting package than to own some lights that don't meet every need in every situation.
 
colormeter said:
$2500 doesn't go an inch these days towards lighting gear. a 1200w HMI is nearly 6 grand alone! about the most frustrating thing you can do is to ONLY have the choice between one or two lights you just happened to be able to afford. the true artist in you will wrestle with yourself... it's better to rent a truck full of lights and actually have access to the ones you need rather than only be able to afford one or two good lights (say, a kino 4-bank and a dedolight 650) and them not meeting your needs for every situation. although, the ones i mentioned are a terrific start.

if you live in an area where you can rent lights, then don't waste your money on buying them. it's much better to have variety in a lighting package than to own some lights that don't meet every need in every situation.
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I've given the rental thing thought before, and it's definitely a possibility, as I live in Chicago, but considering my situation:

- my cast will be doing this solely for the fun and enjoyment of it and because many of them are friends. I can't pay them, and so in many ways, I can't force them to any specific schedule if something in their own lives comes up, so renting can lead to unnecessary costs and stress.

- In my view, aside from items which are so amazingly expensive it's as if they were designed purely for rental use (i.e., cinema lenses and traditional film cams), it feels like renting is putting your money into a black hole. I know that one day I will be renting more frequently, but in my current state, I don't have the stability to warrant taking that chance.

Also, lemme add this, since this could clear up some stuff: the final destination of these projects will be my portfolio for applying to grad school in film, and ideally small film festivals where they can make a bit of money or help ME make money by giving me more credentials.

I explain to people in my film organization who are struggling for ideas that sometimes you need to start by giving yourself limits, because you can't think outside of the box if there IS no box. I guess my goal here is to not give me the biggest box, but a good sized one, and everything in it (and a little around it in some scenarios) will look great.

So, how big do you think this can box be with $2500? ;)
 
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I have been very happy with the Lowell DP lights. They are fairly inexpensive and flexible. I use three or four of them usually with a soft box on one of them.

I also really like the Britek 250 watt light for backlight and accents. I got mine for $79.00.
 
Well, without HMI's the photography will be pretty much amateur, which may be okay, I don't know. There just isn't hardly anyway to light a film with only tungsten fresnels. You really need, well "need" daylight balanced units. But, then you might also need some smaller tungsten units. Really, there is no end to the number and variety of lights you can use... A Kino Flo 4-Bank with Daylight and Tungsten tubes and a Hollywood Combo Stand will set you back about $1700, without a case to put it in. To protect your investment, a $200 case should be purchased. That's about all you can get for the money... Unless you want to buy a bunch of low quality crap, that is.
 
I'll bet most people on this board do not use HMI's. For low cost lights you might try http://www.rostronics.com/. They sell Britek lights. Not the top of the lot but they work just fine for a lot of people on this and other boards and for the price of one Arri you can get 2-3 Briteks. Then just supplement from there.
 
I have 7 lowel lights 4 500w Omnis, 1 1K DP and 2 650W Fren-Ls and that kit does an amazing amount for a small affordable package, I also have a 200W Joker HMI for daylight stuff and it is indispensible for me but you can get around it if your creative. In addition I have two Arri 2k openface units that really pack a punch for $400. You can gel it to daylight and get as much as an 800w HMI, your just burning a lot more juice. I would look on e-bay for lowel kits. they seem to come up pretty often and at good prices.

As for sound start with an Audio Technica 4073a. This truly is the "More bang for your buck" mic. To get a better shotgun you'll have to pay $1500+ With a good boom op you could make a feature with this mic, I know, I have.

After the Lowel kit find an extra 1k and get a Litepanel. I don't leave home without mine.
 
for 2500... You can get a good starter kit... and although an HMI is nice...they are not necessary. Kinos are sweet but really expensive, and there are other flo alternatives at a much cheaper price (lowell, videssence, etc). I've used the briteks and they are good fro the cash... lowell are good lights... and I love the arris. Just don't get the Arri 1k or 2k.. they are plastic crap...

I think a good versatile kit has a variety of light sizes and features. Maybe 200w, 350, 650, 1k with a softbox/ chimera.. and get a combo of stands and clips/mounts for unique locations. You should also look into getting some scrims, flags, fingers and stuff.. either a cheap set off Ebay or make your own... That's where you can seperate yourself.. by getting a cookie.. or buidling one. Shaping with light and patterns... I think you could get something workable for 1500...

Then for audio.. Spend the money on a nice boom pole and a decent shotgun mike.... maybe a mixer but they can be pricey...
 
I want to get a good Arri kit. I spent some time with a few Arri 650s a while ago and I don't want to go back :D
 
Hey John, I am no lighting expert but I was in the same position you were 6 months ago and I actually went for a 4bank Kino and a Dedo 650 plus stands, gels cases, scrims and the list continues...This is by no means a full lighting package but I get really nice results because my projects are "confined" plus I get a little more creative to get the job done...As things get more serious I know now that I will absolutely have to rent for the projects that are coming now...which I only find logical cause there's absolutely no way I'm ever going to afford an HMI or other bigger lights and that I only need to fill my own package with other types of aditions that I know I will use every time and are not that expensive. Believe me the Kino and the Dedo are simply jewels, easy to use, are industry standard and guarranteed to never brake plus people respect you a little more because you know you always want the best...

Frankly I thing you should separate your audio budget as these things cost, maybe you should think of hiring someone to do your audio..I have the luck of having my best friend work at that as he is a sound engineer and he will go for the new schoeps, which right now is the absolute best in the industry...
 
My 2¢ would be to look into Filmgear lighting gear from www.cinemills.com. All of their heads are as basically Arri light copies but less expensive because they're made in China. They even have a wide range of HMI lighting for those of you who think you should never even look at tungsten fresnels (why? childhood CTB incident?). Any additional heads should probably be as needed rentals (Kino's are just too pricey).

I give a big thumbs up to the Litepanels led lights, mostly because they're awesome little fill lights or eye lights. But remember, don't skimp on sound. Getting a good mic is great, but also have someone there to supervise the levels going into the camera. The best way to do this is have your boom-op use a mic pre-amp in line between the boom and the camera such as this one: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...s&Q=&sku=292988&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

No matter what anyone says, good sound is just as important as good picture and can really help a small budget pic seem more polished in the end.
 
Finnian said:
...those of you who think you should never even look at tungsten fresnels (why? childhood CTB incident?).
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Full CTB cuts 80% of the output of a tungsten light, that's why. Also, HMI is 3x brighter per watt than tungsten. In addition to the more obvious benefits, Par lights are much brighter in general than fresnels. Because of these reasons, a 200w HMI is as bright as a 2K Tungsten Fresnel gelled with Full CTB. Probably even brighter. I have witnessed first hand a pair of 2K fresnels with Full CTB not even equal the intensity of one of the newer 400W HMI's. It's that big of a difference.

I can think of a ton of everyday situations that need HMI's. And, very few that require tungsten fresnels... In the interests of disclosure, I own a combination of Kino Flo, tungsten, and a Litepanel.
 
And I bought BRITEK lights from Rostronics and except for the 250, I am not happy with them at all. They blow bulb after bulb - and one caught on fire. Communicating with either company is a headache. It sounds more like they are operating out of someone's garage. (Both Britek and Rostronics)
 
mrpunch said:
And I bought BRITEK lights from Rostronics and except for the 250, I am not happy with them at all. They blow bulb after bulb - and one caught on fire. Communicating with either company is a headache. It sounds more like they are operating out of someone's garage. (Both Britek and Rostronics)
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I wonder if the Cinemills Arri ripoffs are the same. :/
 
Funny enough, the Filmgear heads are really solid. The build quality is even a little better than the Arris. The yoke is way more rugged, no blue plastic baby pin receiver, solid black metal all the way. I just bought a small package of two 650, a 300 and a 1K fresnel. The only bummer is they don't have any kits put together yet, so you end up having to reproduce the Arri kits piece by piece. You still save money though.

As far as HMI's go, I totally get it. On the other hand, they are waaaaay too pricey to own and if you mostly shoot video, I don't see the need to get too carried away with high output heads (plus doesn't everyone here love shooting wide open anyway?). I still rent them a lot for speciality situations.
 
I looked at the Filmgear site and they sent me a price list. They're only about 10-20% cheaper than Arris? They look very solid, though. Anyone else actually use them?

Finnian - how long have you been using them?
 
Colormeter wrote...

"Well, without HMI's the photography will be pretty much amateur..."

Wow, this is one of the funniest things I have ever read on this site. You must not work on many low budget but high quality films or television shows. I have worked with small lighting kits for years, making a good living producing television shows, films and documentaries using nothing larger than a 1,000 watt tungsten instrument.

I agree if you are doing daylight exteriors and need to light, yes, then you need HMIs. But there are always FlexFills, foamcore and shiny boards. For interiors, using small instruments is almost always an effective strategy.

Your statement is fairly uninformed.

Best,

Dan
 
Finnian said:
Funny enough, the Filmgear heads are really solid. The build quality is even a little better than the Arris. The yoke is way more rugged, no blue plastic baby pin receiver, solid black metal all the way. I just bought a small package of two 650, a 300 and a 1K fresnel. The only bummer is they don't have any kits put together yet, so you end up having to reproduce the Arri kits piece by piece. You still save money though.
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okay, how is Cinemills' customer service and what are the warranties on their lights as compared to arri?

also, are they compatible with Arri bulbs, or do they use proprietary stuff?
 
I've had these heads for less than a couple of weeks and in all honesty, haven't done more than put the yoke on, install the globes (which are standard btw), and burn them in for a few minutes each. They feel really great. The spot/fill crank feels smoother than the Arri's, and as i said before, the build quality appears to be a little better than the Arri's in some ways. I guess I'll find out how they'll hold up long term later on. I have a shoot next month so I guess I'll be putting these babies through a field test soon enough.

As far as service goes, Cinemills says they will do all the maintainance in-house (they're based in LA) and I think there's a one year warranty with each head. Again, the biggest drag is that they don't really have any pre-assembled kits that are cost effective compared to Arri (they want $200 for each light stand when filmtools.com sells lightweight stands for about $70 each). But if you do some homework, you can reproduce the kits and still save a few hundred bucks.
 
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