Tapping into Mixers or other Audio Systems

skettalee

skettalee

Well-known member
We are currently using a DVX100A (2 of them) and we need to have a wireless way to tap into a mixing board. Also, what if they dont have any extra outputs, any way we can split their outputs as well? We really need this bad, I searched B&H all day and just cant find anything. Anyone know what we can get?
 
Screw wireless if you "need this bad." That's just going to trip you up if you're in a hurry. Just make sure you get a board feed, but remember board feeds sometimes suck too (the sound engineer is mixing for sound reinforcement of the room, not a good line out). If you have a willing FOH engineer, there will almost always be some output available, but you have to be ready for anything, which means being able to take 2 XLRs or 2 RCAs or 2 1/4" or even possibly a headphones out (1/4" TRS or 1/8" mini). If you have adapters for all of those connections, you'll be able to tap something almost always. Just take the pull into a seperate recorder and sync in post (it's a PITA, but it'll work).
 
ive been tapping board feeds for years, just get you a good wirelless mic ( lectrosonic 411 ) or even a cheaper mike. you may need whats called a xlr line to mic converter. and it will change a line level feed to mic level is what your wirless mic takes. you may also need a xlr to 1/4" jack so the mixer can just plug in your feed. Once your in, you may have to dail down your reciever, and he may have to dail his feed out to you down. as long as your camera is set to mic level and input for the channel you plug it in and you shall be good
 
i do this often.

just get a wireless set that has a "plug on" transmitter.

you can get the sennheiser g2 system with both the lavalier beltpak transmitter and the plug on transmitter.

you can only use one of the transmitters at a time.

having a good kit of adaptors is essential.

matthew
 
I guess that'll work, but I cringe at the thought of:

(1) padding the line-level output to mic-level, only to let the wireless or camera's crappy preamps bring it back up to line level anyway.

(2) Possibly introducing wireless interference and general degredation of the high fidelity output of the soundboard/mixer.

(3) Sounds like both suggestions are only pulling a mono feed, which combined with the fact that the SBD already will sound flat, will just make the music that much more flat and lifeless.

It'll work alright, but even a crappy minidisc into the SBD would probably get a better pull without interference, in stereo, and without the need to pad and use a crappy preamp. Anyway, just my two cents.
 
well this is the way we have done it for years. the wirless mics work on mic level, when you pad it down from line to mic then it stays mic level, you adjust your camera to mic level inputs. all you need are some good wireless. then new wirless like the lectrosonic 411 let you scan your freqs so you know there are no crossing freqs in the area, then pic a block then pic a freq thats clear and your super. have done it on many television shows and still do. and that part your talking about is called a but plug which still needs to go from the board which is normaly line to your mics that normaly run mic level. ( pad ) unless you have a lectrosonic 411, or the 211 set then you can pad it down from the transmitter or the but plug, which ever you are using
 
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dude, your not recording the music for the sound track, your record for your b-roll or just for the nat sound. The actual music is put in post. you should know this. this system is tested and fine
 
Gotta agree with Tainted, avoid the wireless unless absolutely necessary. It just leads to more complications, expense, and worse sound overall.

Good luck
 
well, we havent actually spoken about what the feed is for, have we? if its just some announcers, then wireless isnt really a problem guys.

In a serious jam, I once even put a mic on the the PA speakers with wireless - gave a suprisingly good sound because of the ambient /direct mix.
 
What we are talking about are events where there are speakers... either one, or two... or even like Tops In Blue for the Air Force where there are numerous performers on stage and we just want to get a feed of the overall sound from the mixing board.

You guys are all confusing us about this lol. What we thought of doing was just take XLR cable from the mixer to the DVX and its a go... but sometimes we need to be far from the mixer. So we wanted to do something wireless.

Can you guys just give us a link to a whole setup of what we should buy to accomplish this wirelessly as well as maybe a good place to buy xlr cables that are longer than my dong? We already have a nice wireless mix setup but we cant actually use those already right? because its a mic, i want a line in type thing... Help. thanks for your help so far though!
 
what wireless system do you have?

some of them offer a "plug on" transmitter that is initially meant to be used with a handheld mic but is often used to plug into a soundboard.

also, even if you are plugging into the soundboard make sure you have a shotgun mic etc. so you can get the room sound to mix with the soundboard sound.

if you use JUST the soundboard sound it will be too sterile as you won't get any of the live crowd or ambient sound and it will sound funny.

if you have both the clean recording off of the soundboard and the noisy live sound you can get a nice mix of the two that will seem much more realistic.

matthew
 
Tainted said:
I guess that'll work, but I cringe at the thought of:

(1) padding the line-level output to mic-level, only to let the wireless or camera's crappy preamps bring it back up to line level anyway.
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This is something I have been thinking about and trying to understand. We have good equipment but your point is that once you record to the camera you lose anything that could have been good? I use a Senn 416 and Lectrosonic 400 series wireless. Then the other day someone said well you need to get a great preamp in order to warm up the audio. But you are saying no matter what mic or preamp you use it all goes back to the line level if your recording XLR to the camera?

I'm inexperienced in audio so if there is a thread that answers this or you can I'll check it out.

David
 
This is a question of "gain structuring". Ideally, you want to add gain to your mic signal once, as early in the signal chain as possible. What Tainted is saying is that if you have a really sub-optimal signal chain with multiple gain additions and signal strength reductions (e.g., one where you feed a line level signal to a mic-level wireless transmitter) you can easily lose the benefits of good equipment:

Mic -> good preamp/mixer (add, say, 40dB of gain) -> line out -> some kind of pad (remove, say, 40dB) -> wireless transmitter (all kinds of signal distortion) -> wireless receiver -> camera mic preamp (add, say, 40dB of gain)

So, you're adding 40dB with a good preamp (add only a little noise), then cutting the level back to where you started (but keeping the little noise addition), let's not mention the wireless stuff, then adding 40dB again with a worse preamp which multiplies all the earlier added noise and distortion, and adds its own.

So you can guess, using a mic directly to the transmitter, then to the "crappy" camera preamp, is still better than raising the signal, then lowering it to where you started, and THEN raising it with the crappy preamp.

The way to get the benefit of the good preamp is to raise the signal with it, and leave it raised, to bypass the crappy preamp. Good equipment is useless if you immediately cancel out its effect.
 
I OFTEN have to work with house sound, and have learned a LONG time ago that house sound SUCKS for my needs.

I have taken to using an XLR "Y" cable out of each mic. One goes to the house so he can do whatever the heck he wants, and the other goes to my 302 so I can control what I need.

Works VERY well.

I've experienced WAY too many Blackberry hits to my Lectrosonics, so now I just run a wire.
 
skettalee said:
Can you guys just give us a link to a whole setup of what we should buy to accomplish this wirelessly as well as maybe a good place to buy xlr cables that are longer than my dong? We already have a nice wireless mix setup but we cant actually use those already right? because its a mic, i want a line in type thing... Help. thanks for your help so far though!
Click to expand...


Try this site and check out their forum...they may answer your questions better.

www.coffeysound.com
 
I make "maxtrix mixes" (in audience taper speak) all of the time where I mix in a tiny bit of sound from an ambient stereo pair of mics (most often XY cardioids in the sweet spot, but sometimes split AB omnis onstange) into the soundboard feed using an R4, and the results of the 4-channel to 2-channel mixdown (which I do in post) can be AMAZING. This (relatively) simple technique often produces way better audio than the soundboard or the stereo pair by themselves (ambient's are often too wet, and board is usually way too dry and doesn't have good balance across instrumentation and vocals, but combined can be fantastic).
 
im going to say something that is highly unusual, but has worked well for me before in really tight-for-time sort of setups.

I put a mic on one of the PA speakers, and wirelessly bounced its audio back to me: wet enough to sound real, direct enough to be clear and present.

I used the technique once when my crew arrived late for a press conference and couldnt get a feed from the board. There were 8 people speaking at the conference, so I couldnt stick a mic near the table, and I had to do something, and that was my solution.

It worked suprisingly well, but it is certainly a guerilla way of getting the job done, and maybe not as good as some of the other options spoken about here...
 
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