Is it just me, or do most Indie films look like they were shot in their basement?
- Thread starter Jared Caldwell
- Start date
Illya Friedman
Well-known member
SexyPants said:
Sexy-
This trailer is a good example of what not to do in almost every way. To avoid being cruel, let's grant that 30-40% of the image problems are because of quick time compression. That leaves 60-70% to be divided between composition, set design and lighting. Still frame any of the images and take a look. Ask your self these questions:
Would this make a good photograph?
Does the lighting look good enough to call it a "Rembrandt"?
(Feel free to substitue Rembrandt, with any term to say that the lighting was well conceived)?
And finally is your monitor calibrated?
Beginners should use ask these same questions when shooting, it will help a lot. Since it sounds like you are just starting out, you may want to check out the book "Cinematic Storytelling" by Jennifer Van Sijll.
I.
the_fusionist
Well-known member
"Reguards, Incite", it's not a wonder why you people can't understand what makes movies appear fake.
The most problematic film element is acting without cause and the actor acting to a purpose. The former is when the actor has little reason for doing what he is doing and the latter denotes an actor acting to facilitate the plot. Everything is given away. In real life people do not act like this. Getting actors to interact well with each other and the environment us achieved with fully understanding the story and the characters.
As a director one must recreate the world and exactly as it was. When you begin to take control of things you better be prepared to take control of everything because when you take one element out of the equation all the others will fail. I don't employ actors, I find people who have the same problems as the people in my story.
Other than this, which requires a real story and not just contrived self flattering nonsense, composing your shots for effective emphasis, and creating the illusion of film is essential.
Unoriginal stories are another problem because in comparison to the originals they appear like dorks trying to look cool.. Also actors acting beyond their capabilities (tough guys who have the look but not the power).
The most problematic film element is acting without cause and the actor acting to a purpose. The former is when the actor has little reason for doing what he is doing and the latter denotes an actor acting to facilitate the plot. Everything is given away. In real life people do not act like this. Getting actors to interact well with each other and the environment us achieved with fully understanding the story and the characters.
As a director one must recreate the world and exactly as it was. When you begin to take control of things you better be prepared to take control of everything because when you take one element out of the equation all the others will fail. I don't employ actors, I find people who have the same problems as the people in my story.
Other than this, which requires a real story and not just contrived self flattering nonsense, composing your shots for effective emphasis, and creating the illusion of film is essential.
Unoriginal stories are another problem because in comparison to the originals they appear like dorks trying to look cool.. Also actors acting beyond their capabilities (tough guys who have the look but not the power).
Last edited:
Loki
Veteran
I would say that most of the "indie" (I am talking 0 budget films) i have seen fall into the trap of "shooting to get it done".... where there is little to no thought about the how the final shot will look in the film..
let me show an example from my own work:
older film:
newer film:
the first pict is a pile of crap... everything is flat, there is no use of light at all other than to get an exposure. The second pict however, uses light to create a composition.
other things that help composition is the directors choice of framing of course, but also the way the DP uses filters on the camera.. and different lenses.. etc..
it is a lot of elements.
(of course this is all based on whether you think that the second pict is even an improvement
)
let me show an example from my own work:
older film:
newer film:
the first pict is a pile of crap... everything is flat, there is no use of light at all other than to get an exposure. The second pict however, uses light to create a composition.
other things that help composition is the directors choice of framing of course, but also the way the DP uses filters on the camera.. and different lenses.. etc..
it is a lot of elements.
(of course this is all based on whether you think that the second pict is even an improvement
)
wabbit
Evil has Ears
Thread seemed to have gone a little off what the orginal poster was inquirying but if the question then is what makes an indie "work", story and acting are the most critically missed elements...even when the indie producer thinks he has these elements nailed down. Why? The missing ingredient...experience. You can't fake it, you can't "work around" it and you aint born with it. It takes practice and time; trial and error, studying, and commitment.
As the anti-example, Kevin Smith did not have it and despite Clerks success, the movie pretty much stinks on every measurable level of filmmaking. What he did find was a niche market in "hip" comedy that spoke to a highly regarded demographic (put another way, his script was brilliant enough to overcome ever other weakness). A rare shot-in-the-dark type success that is near impossible to replicate.
The cheap tools of today have allowed young filmmakers to skip expensive film school and PRACTICE on their own (it is debatable which is cheaper and/or faster to get you the experince to be a competent filmmaker). The mistake is thinking just because your first (second, third, and probably forth) film is not made inside a school it is anything but a student film from which to learn and grow on.
One overlooked area that is often not brought up is directing. A good actor will still be lost with a director that doesn't know how to communicate well with his talent. Knowing how to work with an actor to get the performance right and consistent is not as easy as some seem to think heading into their first picture. I have seen a ton of first time directors watch a actor give a crappy performance and just stand there and ask for another take with no input on what needs to be changed...hoping the actor will just "stumble" upon the right performance. Sure, they ***** later the actor sucked but fail to see that, in fact, the director did not do his/her job.
I really think too many people really think directing is easy and can be picked up with no practice.
As for sexypants question...my guess is the art design dept is lacking. Another in the multitude of overlooked depts needed to make a good film. It takes a certain eye to be able to design a set that feels real. Making a simple living room feel like it is inhabited by the characters is often undervalued and overlooked. I have a living room but using low key lighting, throwing some knives on the coffee table and having some moths fluttering around doesn't make it look or feel like a serial killer's residence.
Learn as much before hand, surround yourself with talented people, and be prepared to learn from your mistakes. Best advice I ever heard.
Good luck
As the anti-example, Kevin Smith did not have it and despite Clerks success, the movie pretty much stinks on every measurable level of filmmaking. What he did find was a niche market in "hip" comedy that spoke to a highly regarded demographic (put another way, his script was brilliant enough to overcome ever other weakness). A rare shot-in-the-dark type success that is near impossible to replicate.
The cheap tools of today have allowed young filmmakers to skip expensive film school and PRACTICE on their own (it is debatable which is cheaper and/or faster to get you the experince to be a competent filmmaker). The mistake is thinking just because your first (second, third, and probably forth) film is not made inside a school it is anything but a student film from which to learn and grow on.
One overlooked area that is often not brought up is directing. A good actor will still be lost with a director that doesn't know how to communicate well with his talent. Knowing how to work with an actor to get the performance right and consistent is not as easy as some seem to think heading into their first picture. I have seen a ton of first time directors watch a actor give a crappy performance and just stand there and ask for another take with no input on what needs to be changed...hoping the actor will just "stumble" upon the right performance. Sure, they ***** later the actor sucked but fail to see that, in fact, the director did not do his/her job.
I really think too many people really think directing is easy and can be picked up with no practice.
As for sexypants question...my guess is the art design dept is lacking. Another in the multitude of overlooked depts needed to make a good film. It takes a certain eye to be able to design a set that feels real. Making a simple living room feel like it is inhabited by the characters is often undervalued and overlooked. I have a living room but using low key lighting, throwing some knives on the coffee table and having some moths fluttering around doesn't make it look or feel like a serial killer's residence.
Learn as much before hand, surround yourself with talented people, and be prepared to learn from your mistakes. Best advice I ever heard.
Good luck
craigbowman
Veteran
snodart said:
Based on your response, apparently not.
Aaron Marshall
Well-known member
HDkilledFILM. said:
This pretty much sums up what I was going to say.
snodart
Veteran
craigbowman said:
craigbowman,
First, I would like to thank you for taking the time from your busy professional career to again make a derogatory post. Nice work.
In all seriousness, my point is simple. Something along these lines might be more appropriate and helpfull.
CraigsGoodSide said:
And just think, If you took out all the Q and A bull s**t, you might have a little more time to elaborate on some of the items. I have come across some of you other posts, and I can see that you truly do have extensive knowledge. Just consider sharing it in a more beneficial way.
:kiss:
craigbowman
Veteran
snodart said:
You didn't get the original point which you claimed to have done. Went on down a twisted path, wanting the post to be about nieve filmmakers, which it was not and fired off a bunch of snide comments.
"Based on your response, apparently not" is a very benign recognition, but, you insist on wanting to get your nose out of joint. Don't you think if your interpretation was correct it would be totally out of context for me, based on the other posts you said you have seen?
So quit taking offense. Let's just all go have a pint!
Sean Michael
Well-known member
All of the above?
Filmmaking is a complex, multifacted, collaborative art. To do it well requires expertise in many areas (writing, directing, cinematography, lighting, audio, acting, editing) and even if you've got all the bases covered, you're still not guaranteed a winner.
When it works, it's magic. And that's what keeps us trying.
Filmmaking is a complex, multifacted, collaborative art. To do it well requires expertise in many areas (writing, directing, cinematography, lighting, audio, acting, editing) and even if you've got all the bases covered, you're still not guaranteed a winner.
When it works, it's magic. And that's what keeps us trying.
SexyPants,
Based on that trailer, to me what makes it look cheap is the fact that it looks like anyone's house (or basement). The rooms are small, therefore the actors are kind of smashed up against the walls. Light seems to come from random directions without motivation. It feels, "Lit" if you know what I mean? Someone mentioned earlier about camera movement. A simple dolly move, preferably a very slow one can work wonders but it has to be smooth without the tell-tale bumps from the cheap pvc pipe dolly track running over a carpet welt.
Just some random thoughts. But what do I know? I shoot documentaries.
Chris Pyle
Wildland Films
Based on that trailer, to me what makes it look cheap is the fact that it looks like anyone's house (or basement). The rooms are small, therefore the actors are kind of smashed up against the walls. Light seems to come from random directions without motivation. It feels, "Lit" if you know what I mean? Someone mentioned earlier about camera movement. A simple dolly move, preferably a very slow one can work wonders but it has to be smooth without the tell-tale bumps from the cheap pvc pipe dolly track running over a carpet welt.
Just some random thoughts. But what do I know? I shoot documentaries.
Chris Pyle
Wildland Films
runningwaterproductions
Member
where the movie is shot.
where the movie is shot.
this is a nice topic, cause every indie filmmaker has to start somewhere. As long as you have a good plot and good way to interpret that story to film, video, or any medium you have, it should be good.
where the movie is shot.
this is a nice topic, cause every indie filmmaker has to start somewhere. As long as you have a good plot and good way to interpret that story to film, video, or any medium you have, it should be good.
Patryk_Rebisz
Veteran
I just watched "Snatch" and although it looks great and is full of great actors it did look fake -- although i did enjoy it. You question is a never ending struggle and probably will never be truthfully answered as we all trugle to make our film become reality and very few of us succed. Truthfull stories, truthfull directing/behaviour, great looking shots, good editing ( you know picking the only pieces that you need from the performances trying to cover up the fakeness)... etc ... help.
As to the reason why the posted clip apear dark... most likely the person doing teh compression didn't take to concideration different in monitor's gamma. CineAlta and Varicam shoots for output to film so the fooatge will always be darker so you need to adjust the gamma of the trailer so it looks good on the computer monitor too.
As to the reason why the posted clip apear dark... most likely the person doing teh compression didn't take to concideration different in monitor's gamma. CineAlta and Varicam shoots for output to film so the fooatge will always be darker so you need to adjust the gamma of the trailer so it looks good on the computer monitor too.
Ralph Oshiro
Veteran
How not to look like it was shot in your basement? Don't shoot in your basement! Find the biggest, most diverse, most interesting locations you can steal. The bigger the better (gives shots "depth.") Hard to get any depth in a 10" x 10' room.
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
Then there are films like Pulp Fiction, Jackie Brown and Reservoir Dogs which are shot in mundane, everyday locations with no real fancy set-dressings.
-
Set design is important but so is old fashioned storytelling and filmmaking
skills.
-
Set design is important but so is old fashioned storytelling and filmmaking
skills.
A good hook or concept is always a good starting point. Practice plenty, get to know your craft and use all the tools available that'll help sell your story.
Take a look at some of the trailers / shorts around here that really grabbed peoples attention. A couple of days ago I hit the "replies" tab under "DVX footage" and worked my way through the high reply threads with footage still current. Very motivating.
Good sound design is an absolute must (check out Firre's "Stadium"...wow) and at all costs avoid cliche. Or do it really really well. Everytime I see indie footage with a gun as the star...I pull out a tooth.
Take a look at some of the trailers / shorts around here that really grabbed peoples attention. A couple of days ago I hit the "replies" tab under "DVX footage" and worked my way through the high reply threads with footage still current. Very motivating.
Good sound design is an absolute must (check out Firre's "Stadium"...wow) and at all costs avoid cliche. Or do it really really well. Everytime I see indie footage with a gun as the star...I pull out a tooth.
GaryinCalifornia
Veteran
The trailer lacks pizzaz because their is no pizzaz... maybe cutting in clips with the guns... knifes... girls as we see close ups of the balls hitting each other to a game might help...
Making a good trailer is an art form in its self... I haven't mastered it...
Making a good trailer is an art form in its self... I haven't mastered it...