Is it just me, or do most Indie films look like they were shot in their basement?

Jared Caldwell

Jared Caldwell

Active member
This summer, I am planning on shooting my first feature, blah blah blah, you know, the same shpeal everyone gives before asking a question. I have been looking at a lot of indie films recently, and though I KNOW that most of them were shot in some person's basement, I could tell the intention was to NOT make the environment look like someone's basement.

I took a step back and looked really close at some footage and realized they had all the "correct" things to make the environment come to life, but to my poor eyes, I still saw "the basement", so to say.

I then looked at some of the camera angles and such. Then I went and watched some Hollywood movies and tried to compare. To my observation, I think the big difference was in the way people composed their shots.

As I am going to be shooting most of my stuff indoors, I have been trying to think of ways to maybe frame the scenes so that the audience perceives an environment that is cohesive to the story, and not glaringly someone else's basement.

Any suggestions or comments would be much appreciated! Thanks!
 
In the 40's and 50's all the films looked like they were shot in the studio. No matter how good the composition and lighting was......you still knew it was shot in the studio.
 
marlenedegrood said:
In the 40's and 50's all the films looked like they were shot in the studio. No matter how good the composition and lighting was......you still knew it was shot in the studio.
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So to counteract that you would.....
 
Personally I think the studio films of the 1940s were brilliant, but critics have always favored "art" over "craft" thus Citizen Kane's #1 ranking on so many best-films lists and Casablanca's #2 rank. Personally I think those films of the studio era are technical marvels, although a lot of them bore the hell out of me. (Not all, though!)

The first thing that helps is a huge budget. Put diffusion in your windows and shoot 5ks through them. Build BIG, expansive sets. Light well.

The honest answer is hire a good art director and a good cinematographer and make sure they work well together. I can't say much more than that, since...well...I'm not a professional art director or cinematographer and if I were I'd want you to pay me.

Focus on quality 3-point lighting and read up on cinematography, build nice sets, use good lights (or cheap ones intelligently), and watch movies you like with the sound off and steal the camera angles that don't require absurd camera motion. And use the moving camera intelligently. I don't think Spiderman 2 has a single static frame in it.

This isn't as good as hiring a good crew, but it's cheaper. Unfortunately there are no easy answers (and if there are, those who have them aren't telling.)
 
Q: Mr. Indie, can I see the business plan for your film project?
A: My plan is in my head.

Q: Mr. Indie, how did you cast your actors?
A: That was easy, they're all my friends and relatives.

Q: Mr. Indie, can I see your shooting script?
A: I'm directing and I already see the whole movie in my head.

Q: Mr. Indie, how many months have you been reheasing?
A: My friends and relatives have busy lives, so were just gonna do a quick walk through of each shot before we film it.

Q: Mr. Indie, have you tried blocking any scenes yet?
A: What the @#$%$ is blocking? Speak English for @#@#$% sake.

Q: Mr. Indie, are you going to do camera and lighting tests?
A: This filmmaking stuff is expensive. We're gonna rent what we need when we do the shoot.

Q: Mr. Indie, are you gonna study some of the great resources out there like the Hollywood Camerawork DVD series?
A: Like I said, we're renting. Why should I blow the little money I have on that stuff?

Q: Mr. Indie, do you think you're not putting in enough effort on planning and preparation?
A: Hey, I've been busting my ass to get this project off the ground for months now. Like I told you, I can see it all in my head! I'm not a stinkin' accountant. I don't need a friggin' business plan for a twenty minute film or spend all freekin' summer doing a bunch of stupid paperwork and looking at DVDs. All I gotta do is get out there and shoot it!

Q: Mr. Indie, what made you decide to make a film this summer?
A: Well, its the summer coming up after all. I thought it was about time I made a serious movie.
 
What indie films are you watching? The difference between a film that looks good and a film that plays well are leaps and bounds apart. I've watched a thousand hollywood pieces of crap which look great and then watched some indies which look less than pollished but play really well and are interesting. I say good acting is #1 after good story (Dialogue is key for me in a film, actors can be great if the dialogue is great if not don't waste your time.) A great producer once told a great director in preproduction, paper is cheaper than film. Story is key. As for making something be high production value it's either love, hustle, or money.
 
Q: Mr. Indie, can I see the business plan for your film project?
A: My plan is in my head.

Q: Mr. Indie, how did you cast your actors?
A: That was easy, they're all my friends and relatives.

Q: Mr. Indie, can I see your shooting script?
A: I'm directing and I already see the whole movie in my head.

Q: Mr. Indie, how many months have you been reheasing?
A: My friends and relatives have busy lives, so were just gonna do a quick walk through of each shot before we film it.

Q: Mr. Indie, have you tried blocking any scenes yet?
A: What the @#$%$ is blocking? Speak English for @#@#$% sake.

Q: Mr. Indie, are you going to do camera and lighting tests?
A: This filmmaking stuff is expensive. We're gonna rent what we need when we do the shoot.

Q: Mr. Indie, are you gonna study some of the great resources out there like the Hollywood Camerawork DVD series?
A: Like I said, we're renting. Why should I blow the little money I have on that stuff?

Q: Mr. Indie, do you think you're not putting in enough effort on planning and preparation?
A: Hey, I've been busting my ass to get this project off the ground for months now. Like I told you, I can see it all in my head! I'm not a stinkin' accountant. I don't need a friggin' business plan for a twenty minute film or spend all freekin' summer doing a bunch of stupid paperwork and looking at DVDs. All I gotta do is get out there and shoot it!

Q: Mr. Indie, what made you decide to make a film this summer?
A: Well, its the summer coming up after all. I thought it was about time I made a serious movie.
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Wtf?

Are you just giving reasons why a lot of Indies look so fake? If so , I understand.

What indie films are you watching?
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Here is just an example. This is a film from some people in Atlanta I know. The film was shot on a CineAlta. Most of it looks pretty ok, but even from the trailer, it just lacks pizzaz.

http://www.behindthenine.com/trailers/Bt9_trailer.mov

I think I have just been a little unclear. My main question was why do some movies just LOOK fake? It seems to me that one person can go and shoot a scene, and it looks fake, then the next person walks in, shoots it differently, and it looks great.

I understand that you need good lighting, good acting, rule of thirds, etc, but what are some tips in shooting that could give the film a little more of a professional look to it, rather than a fake look.

Maybe the best way to ask this would be what are the really big "no-no's" when shooting?

It just seems to me that some of these films have all the right shots and lights, it just comes out looking cheap. I just feel I am missing something.

Thank you all so much for the responses thus far!
 
Hire a good DP, a good gaffer, and a good art designer. If you want your movie to look good, find people who know how to make it look good.

If someone could teach all that in an online post, Kaminski certainly wouldn't be making $30,000 a day or whatever...
 
SexyPants said:
Wtf?

Are you just giving reasons why a lot of Indies look so fake? If so , I understand.



Here is just an example. This is a film from some people in Atlanta I know. The film was shot on a CineAlta. Most of it looks pretty ok, but even from the trailer, it just lacks pizzaz.

http://www.behindthenine.com/trailers/Bt9_trailer.mov

I think I have just been a little unclear. My main question was why do some movies just LOOK fake? It seems to me that one person can go and shoot a scene, and it looks fake, then the next person walks in, shoots it differently, and it looks great.

I understand that you need good lighting, good acting, rule of thirds, etc, but what are some tips in shooting that could give the film a little more of a professional look to it, rather than a fake look.

Maybe the best way to ask this would be what are the really big "no-no's" when shooting?

It just seems to me that some of these films have all the right shots and lights, it just comes out looking cheap. I just feel I am missing something.

Thank you all so much for the responses thus far!
Click to expand...


In reguards to that link of the trailer...

I actually thought that looked pretty good. Of course that was just the trailer. I thought the image was a little dark. Also I wasn't really paying attention to the audio, but that didn't sound to bad.

what seemed fake about it to you? The fact it looks more video than film? that might be it. Other than that...acting/dialoge is the biggest reason anyting seems fake I think
 
SexyPants said:
Wtf?

Are you just giving reasons why a lot of Indies look so fake? If so , I understand.



Here is just an example. This is a film from some people in Atlanta I know. The film was shot on a CineAlta. Most of it looks pretty ok, but even from the trailer, it just lacks pizzaz.

http://www.behindthenine.com/trailers/Bt9_trailer.mov

I think I have just been a little unclear. My main question was why do some movies just LOOK fake? It seems to me that one person can go and shoot a scene, and it looks fake, then the next person walks in, shoots it differently, and it looks great.

I understand that you need good lighting, good acting, rule of thirds, etc, but what are some tips in shooting that could give the film a little more of a professional look to it, rather than a fake look.

Maybe the best way to ask this would be what are the really big "no-no's" when shooting?

It just seems to me that some of these films have all the right shots and lights, it just comes out looking cheap. I just feel I am missing something.

Thank you all so much for the responses thus far!
Click to expand...


The car trunk scene, had no cutaway shots. It stayed too long on that angle.
Some of the people interaction seemed forced and unnatural.

That was the main things I saw, without over analizing things.

I watched a re-run today of Spin City. There was a scene where they were suposed to be videotaping themselves.
The video tapped version really stood out, as they were really stiff, talked funny...less relaxed, and the footage was really sharp.
The camera angles were too low for 3/4 shots, but everything else was good. The thing I noticed the most was the sharp almost overly detailed edges, and the stiffness of the actors. (of course they were acting this way to let you know that was supposed to be the video footage).
 
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craigbowman said:
Q: Mr. Indie, can I see the business plan for your film project?
A: My plan is in my head.

Q: Mr. Indie, how did you cast your actors?
A: That was easy, they're all my friends and relatives.

Q: Mr. Indie, can I see your shooting script?
A: I'm directing and I already see the whole movie in my head.

Q: Mr. Indie, how many months have you been reheasing?
A: My friends and relatives have busy lives, so were just gonna do a quick walk through of each shot before we film it.

Q: Mr. Indie, have you tried blocking any scenes yet?
A: What the @#$%$ is blocking? Speak English for @#@#$% sake.

Q: Mr. Indie, are you going to do camera and lighting tests?
A: This filmmaking stuff is expensive. We're gonna rent what we need when we do the shoot.

Q: Mr. Indie, are you gonna study some of the great resources out there like the Hollywood Camerawork DVD series?
A: Like I said, we're renting. Why should I blow the little money I have on that stuff?

Q: Mr. Indie, do you think you're not putting in enough effort on planning and preparation?
A: Hey, I've been busting my ass to get this project off the ground for months now. Like I told you, I can see it all in my head! I'm not a stinkin' accountant. I don't need a friggin' business plan for a twenty minute film or spend all freekin' summer doing a bunch of stupid paperwork and looking at DVDs. All I gotta do is get out there and shoot it!

Q: Mr. Indie, what made you decide to make a film this summer?
A: Well, its the summer coming up after all. I thought it was about time I made a serious movie.
Click to expand...

So true so true

Study study shoot shoot and then study some more

Exposure

Comps

Framing

Story

Talent

Lighting

Editing

and on and on and on .......................
 
craigbowman said:
Q: Mr. Indie, can I see the business plan for your film project?
A: My plan is in my head.

Q: Mr. Indie, how did you cast your actors?
A: That was easy, they're all my friends and relatives.

Q: Mr. Indie, can I see your shooting script?
A: I'm directing and I already see the whole movie in my head.

Q: Mr. Indie, how many months have you been reheasing?
A: My friends and relatives have busy lives, so were just gonna do a quick walk through of each shot before we film it.

Q: Mr. Indie, have you tried blocking any scenes yet?
A: What the @#$%$ is blocking? Speak English for @#@#$% sake.

Q: Mr. Indie, are you going to do camera and lighting tests?
A: This filmmaking stuff is expensive. We're gonna rent what we need when we do the shoot.

Q: Mr. Indie, are you gonna study some of the great resources out there like the Hollywood Camerawork DVD series?
A: Like I said, we're renting. Why should I blow the little money I have on that stuff?

Q: Mr. Indie, do you think you're not putting in enough effort on planning and preparation?
A: Hey, I've been busting my ass to get this project off the ground for months now. Like I told you, I can see it all in my head! I'm not a stinkin' accountant. I don't need a friggin' business plan for a twenty minute film or spend all freekin' summer doing a bunch of stupid paperwork and looking at DVDs. All I gotta do is get out there and shoot it!

Q: Mr. Indie, what made you decide to make a film this summer?
A: Well, its the summer coming up after all. I thought it was about time I made a serious movie.
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craigbowman, although I see you point, I'm not sure that I see the purpose of attempting to answer the question in this way. You have described, with exaggeration and satire, a good portion of the people that use this site. I'm not sure that this was your intent, but your Q and A session comes across as a bit pompous. It reminds me of a group of country club golfers nudging each other with elbows and smirking at a municipal course golfer grabbing the wrong club. Carry on as you choose, but if your intent is to enlighten, perhaps a more efficient and less derogatory way would be most beneficial to those seeking advice.

SexyPants, I know exactly what you mean about the indie/basement look. It is not an easy thing to get rid of when you are on an indie budget and have a small crew. The example clip that you posted did seem a bit dark at times. It worked okay in some places, but in others it just seemed like they didn't have a very dynamic lighting set up. One thing that has made a difference in my shots is to put more light on the subject and then break up the light that falls on the background (non-subject). Using barn doors and cookies can make a pretty big difference.

I think that camera movement also plays a roll in getting rid of the indie look. I'm not just talking about big jib or steadicam movements. If you watch closely, with a good majority of big budget movies, the camera is not often truly static. Granted it may be slight movement such as a dolly moving less than a foot or a slight pan with a fluid head, but it is still there. I think that this type of slight movement helps bring life to many shots and of course adds some production value as well.

The one thing that I think separates indie/basement footage from big budget movies is the depth of field. Of course 24P, lighting, acting, comp, etc all play a big roll, but even with all of those in place, not having a more shallow DOF seems to make it all fall to pieces. People (we) are accustomed to seeing the DOF that 35mm film can provide. In fact the DOF that the human eye produces is very similar to the DOF often seen with 35mm film. Prosumer DV/HD cams are of course limited to a very large DOF because of the small size of the CCD. If you don't already have one, I would suggest looking into building or buying a 35mm DOF adapter. I have only been using my adapter for a short while, but I am still stunned at what a huge difference it makes. Keep in mind that having an adapter will complicate things some. You will be limited to a pretty narrow DOF and keeping focus will become a whole new challenge. So if you do end up with one make sure to allow yourself or whoever is working the camera plenty of time to get used to it. If your budget allows, you may even want to have a dedicated focus puller.

Good luck!
 
SexyPants said:
Here is just an example. This is a film from some people in Atlanta I know. The film was shot on a CineAlta. Most of it looks pretty ok, but even from the trailer, it just lacks pizzaz.

http://www.behindthenine.com/trailers/Bt9_trailer.mov
Click to expand...

My opinion on the trailer: get a better DP and better actors, give them a HVX and it will look way better than this.

Framing was boring, no camera movement, no poper lighting, bad acting, bad sound (very important!), no CC.

If this was from a guy's first try with a 1CCD camcorder, it would be pretty good. But if they really spent money for a CineAlta, they should've done this better.
 
The Big Three, In Order of Importance...

#1 A Great Script With Great Dialogue

-followed very, very closely by-

#2 Great Professional Actors & Actresses

-and trailing in third place-

#3 Competent Cinematography (Solid Lighting Schemes Most Especially)



There isn't even a close forth...for if the above three are accomplished, the other components will fall into place
 
Nice Callgahn, I do somewhat agree but want to shuffle them up !!!!!!!!!

-

I think Actors are first in order of importance. Why ? Because bad acting can be spotted even by the most incompetent observer from the very first line.

-

Then story comes second and inevitably is the item that will sink or swim your piece. Because if we cannot hold them until the last frame, then we failed.

-

Competent Cinematography is last. I have seen many a compelling film with 'so so' camera and lighting work.
 
Let's just say that it is too close to call between Acting and Writing...

I never cease to be amazed by the frequency of productions (and not necessarily just low-budget independents) that strive so bloody hard to achieve high(er) production value; yet make the fatal error of of casting actors that the camera plain & simply just doesn't like...

or a writer who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the script. Cliché it may be... but "if it ain't on the page, it ain't on the stage" is as relevant today as it was in the beginning.

Either oversight will kill a film, and kill it instantly.
 
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