Beginning Middle End... is this the HARDEST part?

MattinSTL

MattinSTL

Sound Modulator
This is my first post in this part of the forum... I'll confess that I don't read many posts here, but I did do a search before putting this up... and there may be a thread already addressing this.

I remember a while ago somebody had a "what's the hardest part" for the zombie fest.

I'm throwing my vote down on this one idea... I think it's harder then anything else to formulate an idea with a beginning, middle, and end.

BME is almost everything to me. I can enjoy a character study... or a single act from a play... but if there wasn't MORE to that act... or a possible background to that character... then how interesting would it be?

It doesn't matter what the genre is... I think the sign of a good writer is BME. I see commercials all the time on TV that tell a complete story in 30 SECONDS! There are a few for the Sci-Fi channel that run a minute and they're pure brilliance... Have you seen the one where the guy makes a "human robot suit" for his dog and then sends his dog off to do his job? That is the best...

Guy is aggravated at work... comes home... worthless disobedient dog sleeping on couch... pees on floor when guy throws ball to dog... guy gazes at dog while contemplating solving two problems... guy draws up plans and shots cut to building and testing and fitting the dog... dog is sent on his way walking clumsy... dog is accepted at man's job and dog EXCELLS at man's job... charts and company accolades with panning and desolving shots to establish time passing and dog climbing the company latter... dog arrives back home in mercedes and chirps the alarm before walking in to find man asleep on couch... dog light a cigar and throws ball for man to chase it as man laughs and rolls over... BRILLIANT!

B M E with a point and high entertainment value... okay so WE don't have that budget, but what's up with BME? Is it really that hard? Apparently it is... if you see even a dozen independent films it's a miracle if even ONE of them has a real, honest BME. If you ask about BME you'll get tons of excuses or reasons... but I'm telling you that if you TRULY want to be a good writer you need to think about this and figure out how to apply it to nearly everything you write... even a character study should start out with traits and personality defined in a compelling way as it establishes a beginning.

I just watched a college film about a girl with a drug problem... it opens with her making a choice to neglect her baby in favor of drug use... and that's it... baby put aside and shoot up. Maybe it's a young girl who had a baby too soon and she's trying to escape? That makes sense, but how about showing high-school photos of cheerleading or honor roll... or family pictures and pan down to one of her with a guy and the glass is broke...

To some of you this will be annoying... I don't fancy myself a writer at all... even though I would like to be one... but I've read so many scripts where the writer sees this clear story of BME and it's just not so...

Sorry for the little vent session... I honestly hope it gives any struggling writers something productive to think about.
 
People get so absorbed by the picture and technology that they forget all about beginnings middles and ends. Funny how we go to the movies and recognize right off when the story (BME) is missing! But knowing how to come up with that ourselves seems rare. I just watched the British short, Cashback, which is nominated for an Academy Award for best short film...and frankly I'm a bit baffled (see: http://www.zed.cbc.ca/go?c=ZedCandidCashback ).

Yes, it's beautifully filmed. The production values and performances are superb. But...it's totally un-engaging as a story. There is no story. It's just a series of ideas. Certainly no BME. But hey, it got nominated for an Oscar and I should be so talented.
 
hmm... I don't know if you were trying to throw me a curve here, but I strongly suggest that EVERYBODY that reads this thread... WATCH that flick... not only did I see what for me... is physical perfection... really... I also really like this short story.

That hits so many of my personal buttons... you just don't know... I've led a mostly thankless live... low on respect and reward... which explains a lot of my personal addiction to DVXuser and the various ways that I try to help people... because it's usually appreciated... but anyway, back to this flick... that speaks to me on almost all levels.

I'm pulling my own thread OT, but man thanks for posting that link... I can't believe you weren't impressed with that.

Ironic that flick was written and directed by SEAN Ellis... that wasn't you was it Sean? That would be really cool if you just said all that to throw the ultimate curve... and poke fun at yourself in the process.

do me a favor and just say it's you... then I can sit in quiet admiration that you headed a project of that caliber.
 
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Hmm, interesting opinions on that film on zed.cbc.
I ended up not even watching the whole thing, as it just didn't so it for me, and I [somewhat] agree with sean90291's comments.
It's definitely good, but not THAT good.

But back to the main topic: the BME: THAT I 100% agree with, Matt. It is so important it is not even funny. It will make or break a movie, with only VERY VERY few exceptions. In fact, ANY piece should have a BME; be it a feature, a short, or even a wedding video.

The world record for the shortest film ever goes to a MINI advertisement; it is only 12 seconds long, but has a beginning, middle and end. Quite clever:
http://mini2.com/video/film300k.mov

In a pursuit to beat that, I actually made a shorter film yet, that is only 5 seconds long (IIRC) but still has a BME; unfortunately it would be unsuitable to show on this forum! ;-)

BME rules! ;-)
 
This is a story which takes place through the mind of our main character... the setting is the night shift of a grocery store.

B = story begins defining time and our relationship in it... then how thankless low paying work is drudgery... this thoughtful analysis narrated by the main character ALSO INTRODUCES that main character to us.

M = story shows how others actually feel the same way about a thankless low paying job... and that they ALL must find ways to accept the frustrating inevitability of it. I love when the girl accidentally sees the clock and slaps her hands over her eyes. Every employee of the store is DESPERATE to shut off their mind to the drudgery.

E (almost... or let's call it pre-end climax) = All the employees are not beyond degenerating to the lowest denominator in the store. They will all ebrace the infantile behavior of the two clowns if given the chance.

Then the story pivots on this moment... the "crash". We've already been introduced to the main character and his dreams of becoming an artist... we were told that from the beginning... and we had that reinforced as he was mesmerized by the spilled bag of peas. This set up the later premise in a way that made unrealistic events acceptable.

E = where the actual "end" of the short comes in is debateable as it sort of wraps up pretty quick... but I think the end of the story starts as soon as we see that he has mastery over the environment. We see what he choses to do with it... we assume that he took a picture in his mind and he is moving through that picture in his mind only... at least I did... The little moment with him staring motionless at the peas was crucial to give us doubt about what to make of the later "frozen environment"... was he staring off in space again? Or was did he really cause this?

Once he physically MOVES his frozen boss it's only then that we can truly accept that he really did have control over the environment... and the short ends with him laughing in humor and satisfaction at his own superiority over what for everyone else is drudgery.

I don't know... it worked for me... I see BME in that story.

VIDLED... man whatever ad company does the mini ad campaign is worth every freakin' penny... I haven't seen ONE mini commercial or even heard one on the radio... that isn't brilliant.

Oh yeah... and if you didn't get to the swedish exchange student then you just did yourself a disservice... that make uh my mind no work right... yikes.
 
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vidled said:
The world record for the shortest film ever goes to a MINI advertisement; it is only 12 seconds long, but has a beginning, middle and end.
Click to expand...

Awhile ago there was a 5 second film posted here called "Shot of a Lifetime". It was brilliant.

Here is the link to the original thread: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=2561&highlight=shot+lifetime

Unfortunately, the link to the actual film is broken. Does anyone have a valid link?

Chris
 
Hehe, no, I did get to the exchange student, turned off as he was googling at another naked store customer.
I have no problem with the nudity at all, and it obviously was crucial to this story; but I sometimes think these kinds of stories seem "forced"; I am not sure how to explain it.
Maybe it's the all-so-cliché store manager and his hots for the female employee; maybe it's the narration, maybe it's just too drawn out for me....I just didn't "connect".
Although I do agree it was VERY well made, technically, and it has some REALLY cute moments (like the one you mentioned, the "looking at clock" think; also the accident of the guy on the bicycle put on the web, etc.)
 
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CMessineo said:
Awhile ago there was a 5 second film posted here called "Shot of a Lifetime". It was brilliant.
Click to expand...

Oh, cool! I haven't seen that one, but I do recall there was a COMPETITION / online FESTIVAL for 5 second short films. I think it might of been for a car company.
I entered mine, but alas, it didn't even get in to be considered...so what the heck do I know anyways...
:Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)
 
MattinSTL said:
hmm... I don't know if you were trying to throw me a curve here, but I strongly suggest that EVERYBODY that reads this thread... WATCH that flick... not only did I see what for me... is physical perfection... really... I also really like this short story.

That hits so many of my personal buttons... you just don't know... I've led a mostly thankless live... low on respect and reward... which explains a lot of my personal addiction to DVXuser and the various ways that I try to help people... because it's usually appreciated... but anyway, back to this flick... that speaks to me on almost all levels.

I'm pulling my own thread OT, but man thanks for posting that link... I can't believe you weren't impressed with that.

Ironic that flick was written and directed by SEAN Ellis... that wasn't you was it Sean? That would be really cool if you just said all that to throw the ultimate curve... and poke fun at yourself in the process.

do me a favor and just say it's you... then I can sit in quiet admiration that you headed a project of that caliber.
Click to expand...

Sorry Matt, nothing as meta-tricky as that. I'm not the same Sean. And I honestly didn't like the short for it's storytelling. I didn't think there was a story. Just absolutely amazing shots and performances. And the idea was awesome--like you said, it's about grinding through life with little reward. I guess if the short had really stayed on that point and delivered me a B.M.E. that somehow went through a story deling with the sad state of wasting our time in dead-end jobs while the artist in us dies...well that would have really been worth it. As it is, the short just meanders through a bunch of images ("the first time I realized what real beauty was, I was six years old" -- flashback to seeing an amazingly, gratuitously hot naked chick at six years old -- and I'm wondering what the hell does this have to do with anything in this short film)? But I think the fact you loved it Matt demonstrates partly why the story is the hardest part for most filmmakers: it's so subjective. You loved it the way it is. I was left completely underwhelmed. I bet we can all agree on whether something is in focus, or even if the colors are cool or the location cinematic. But aghreeing on story is much more difficult.
 
Sean... agreed.

I certainly wouldn't argue that the story was strong... but it hit me in ways that are probably unique to me. I've always admired feminine beauty in a distant way... any really hot girl I've ever been with, even briefly... only made me miserable. So I admire women of that caliber as art... and I still find them very attractive, but I just leave it as "art".

I've also had a lot of thankless jobs... and I totally get the time thing... you have to abandone your sense of time in order to get through it. I guess I just enjoyed hearing another perspective on my own feelings.

As for the 5 second flick... I had to do a bit of googling, but I'm guessing this is it:

http://www.studentfilmmakers.com/bogenimaging/sb-Shotofalifetime.shtml


*MattinSTL: raising links from the dead since '04.
 
Wow, that IS a good short;
and to keep the very interesting topic of this thread going; has a clear BME.
 
I'd like to just add my two cents in, about that beginning...

In writing you want to come into the scene as LATE AS POSSIBLE, so this means
do not show someone waking up, show them in the shower instead or having
breakfast. Even among screenwriters there is a tendency to add mundane
events.

Get to the point, then get out quickly. So then your ending should leave us
either wanting more or compeletly satisfied.

Charli
 
Charli said:
So then your ending should leave us
either wanting more or compeletly satisfied.

Charli
Click to expand...

You make it sound rather easy. An ending that is completely satisfying or leaves us wanting more...well if every film pulled that off every film and short would be a success. And most are certainly not.
 
Exactly, Sean, that's why so many screenwriters don't sell a script. The pacing is
too slow, the story gets lost in the middle, the scenes are too long.

Each scene should be no more than 2 pages long, maybe 3. This gives you a chance
to have a better pace to your story. Come into the scene at the last possible
moment, meaning, do NOT show the mundane, instead, get to the point and get
there quickly, then leave EARLY. You leave the scene with enough info given that
the person reading the script wants to

TURN THE PAGE

and continue reading. The death of scripts is when you don't want to turn that
page. Screenwriting takes years to develop. The saying in Hollywood is that it
takes 9 scripts before a screenwriter will sell even one.

I know many of you want to make good movies, well, a good movie starts with
a good story. A good story can be developed, but to write one, that takes some
skill.

Charli
 
hey matt,

there's another school of thought, and that's that "story is character"-- what good is a great story with obstacles and people in jeopardy if you don't care about the characters?

In my mind, you've raised the classic chicken and egg connundrum writers always argue about. there's no answer, for me, a good character study can stand alone with a weak story, but i find strong stories with weak characters much less interesting. your mileage may vary.
 
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