HDX900 --- Why is no one talking about it?

ropbo said:
Well, you won't find a good Super 16 zoom lens for less than 6 grand ... that's for sure. But you can find a set of Zeiss Superspeed Mk I (bayonet mount) for around 5. Zeiss Superspeed set Mk II PL mount for around $15,000

(I'm talking about used lenses)

If you go with 35mm lenses, you won't find a good zoom lense for less than 10 grand.

Buying a $17500 camera and using a shi*ty/cheap lens doesn't make much sense, does it ?

BUT ... you can rent good lenses for $300 - $500 a day which is a good deal ...

If you wanna have an idea of costs, check this website out:

http://www.cinematechnic.com/products/sales_lenses.html
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This is not necessarily true. The larger the sensor the less per line height resolution a given lens needs to resolve. That's why Imax uses Hasselblad lenses, not super pricey cinema glass. Also, most older 35mm cinema lenses were designed for 35mm film and don't take into account the vignetting that sensors can show when light rays hit them off axis. More modern Nikon lenses such as the 17-35mm zoom will produce superior results to older wide angle lenses. It sure does on my 12MP D2x.

I have $10K worth of Nikon glass already so it's a no brainer for me to just add focus gears and call it good. I'll still buy some Red lenses and if things go well maybe some more modern Zeiss glass but honestly I doub't the difference will be stunning.
My biggest hope is that a Leica M mount can be made for Red. Some of my favorite lenses of all time are the Leica M 35mm Summilux and 50mm Summmicron M.
I get chills just thinking about shooting a film with leica M glass:Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)
 
This is just my opinion and Im basing it on feeling not facts. The stats of the red seem phenomenal. But even if I could afford it I wouldnt buy it. True I want the best image available for the $$ but not at the expense of other things that I feel are important.

The design, I think it looks like something suited to GI Joe. Why would this matter? Well when you go out on a job, people look at the equipment you bring, usually its a 2 second glance and a thought "oh yeah it looks pro" they are comfortable. Red doesnt look like a traditional camera, and whilst thats appealing to you and I, it doesnt make others comfortable. When people buy a wheel they want it to look like a wheel.

For my mind, everyone out there wants a camera that outputs what this camera hypothetically can achieve at the lower price point. I think red should have concentrated on delivering just that, and not re invent the wheel.. just my 2c.
 
not re invent the wheel.
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Sometimes that is neccesary though. The current market is pretty stale, and it needed someone to come along and think completely outside the box. At the end of the day people are going to be caring more about the picture quality that is produced. As for looks, at the moment I think the camera looks weird. However imagine it with the lens, matte box, rails, recording device , battery etc.
 
evinsky said:
Do you remember what sunglasses looked like before Oakley?
Nuf said.
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Yeah and now they have for the most part regressed to an older look.

I mean just take a look at these for a start... http://oakley.com/o/c326s

Anyway its just my opinion........NUF said.

Simon Wyndham said:
Sometimes that is neccesary though. The current market is pretty stale, and it needed someone to come along and think completely outside the box. At the end of the day people are going to be caring more about the picture quality that is produced. As for looks, at the moment I think the camera looks weird. However imagine it with the lens, matte box, rails, recording device , battery etc.
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As I said with regards to the price and the output its great. But I agree with your last point... with all those attached it would tone the overall look down considerably.
 
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I think we may have drifted off topic.. The poster (Long ago) was asking about why there was no information on the HDX900 out there.. Then someone said it was because of the red camera.

I don't think this is true. Look, I think the RED camera is great, and when it arrives I will look at it.

My belief is that Panasonic made this decision not long ago at all. This camera will not be a major alteration from the Varicam and it won't be too hard to put together. So I think they simply looked at the market and decided that this is where they need to go. I THINK this will be the only Tape HD camera that will allow all flavors of resolution.

Personally I am not done with Tape yet. I like it as a storage medium (Good tape that is). BUT This new 900 works with Tape AND has Firewire Out which means it will work with the new Firestore Drive as well.. So I have a choice.. I LOVE THAT. Tape for backup, and harddrive for editing.

As for right now.. I am very excited about the 900 and a little pissed. I have only owned my 900 for 2 years.. I sure hope they offer some incentive to those of us who have been loyal to Panasonic and spent $30,000 plus on their SD version.

From what I can tell we are looking at a Firewire / SDI camera that can do 1080P and up to 60fps at 720P. This is major. Also being the same body style as the other cameras (I assume) means all my accessories will still work on it.

My AJ-SDX900 has been wonderful. I love the images I have been able to get with it and I KNOW I have not scratched the surface of what it can do. The 900s were built to be very tough, and work with today's standard broadcast equipment. The RED is going to be a new animal and will take a lot of it's own toys.

Like anyone who does this stuff for a living, usually you will spend more money on what you put ON the camera than you will on the camera itself. I am excited about Red, but I am excited about this new camera from Panasonic as well. I personally feel RED will be doing quite well if they can have a product with no bugs and proper accessories and a good workflow all the way to editing by the end of 2007, but I would not expect it a day before then. The camera may be ready sooner, but there is a long way to go after that.

Jay
 
roxics said:
Well that's a simple answer - RED - that's why.
RED is only $17,500 and offers a lot higher quality and a revolutionary design. The SI camera is also cheaper and will offer at least the same kind of quality.
If Panasonic released this new cam for $15,000 it would probably get more buzz here, but I know they probably can't because of the tape drive.

I mean it looks like a nice camera no doubt, but everyone here is focused on the new independent startups offerin g better cams at lower prices.
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RED didn't really show much of anything. It was a lot of talk. It's a great concept but it remains to be seen what, if anything, they'll actually release. Nice guys though.
 
DC said:
RED didn't really show much of anything. It was a lot of talk. It's a great concept but it remains to be seen what, if anything, they'll actually release. Nice guys though.
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I know this has been said before, but maybe it should be said again. This exact same statement could be said of Panasonic last year in regards to the HVX. I happen to think the HVX is a pretty sweet camera, but at the time, a number of people criticized them for being 'all talk.'

Yes, it remains to be seen what they actually release, but let's be fair here.
 
ncje said:
The design, I think it looks like something suited to GI Joe. Why would this matter? Well when you go out on a job, people look at the equipment you bring, usually its a 2 second glance and a thought "oh yeah it looks pro" they are comfortable. Red doesnt look like a traditional camera, and whilst thats appealing to you and I, it doesnt make others comfortable. When people buy a wheel they want it to look like a wheel.
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I know how you feel! Every time I do a shoot using a DVX, PD150, even an XL2 (which has the illusion of being pro), I feel very "small shop amatuer"ish! Lucky for me, my experience has been that the people who do the hiring haven't got a clue. They take one look at a PD150 and say "Cool!" Not that I have anything against the Sony cam, but it definitely doesn't look "pro." I guess that'd be a Varicam.

My guess is, most people will make a fuss about it for 5 minutes (mostly involving words like "cool" and "weird"), and then go back to what they were doing. How many people are going to hire you, see your camera, and then come up to you and say, "You know, this really isn't working out the way we had hoped. We thought you'd be a little more pro. Your services are no longer required." ? ? ? Anyone?
 
On the screen 1/3" material looks different to 2/3" material. Generally it looks worse. You don´t even need to know why there is a difference. It just feels different. That´s the moment when people who hire you might get real doubts. But the HVX900 is oldscool. It´s really weird that Panasonic announced the P2-equivalent for 2007 - and for more or less the same price. Can´t they take a HVX-body, stick it to a 2/3" HD-head and offer it for the price of a RED? Right now? It would be all proven tecnology, no need to spend much time and money on development.
 
But Indie filmmakers are not panasonic's number one concern, regarding the HDX900. They have big customers in broadcast sports and news. Who see the HDX as a more manageable camera for their projects. These people do not care about Red. And they have been paying Panasonic, Sony and the like big money over the years.

Joe Said: "Can´t they take a HVX-body, stick it to a 2/3" HD-head and offer it for the price of a RED? Right now?"

Why? the red is not out right now, its a business not a race. Why give away features that you can sell for later?
 
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People have to understand something else too about Red vs. HDX900, etc. The HDX would come with a massive support network. Hundreds of professional dealers and service centers, thousands of trained technicians. That kind of support network is vital for mass adoption by large businesses.

I don't believe Red is even looking at that. Red isn't even looking at having dealers. They are going to sell one-on-one, company-direct to individual owner-operators, aren't they? I don't know how networks would feel about the Red purchasing/service business model, and I don't know that Jim and crew are even concerned about that market as of yet. But I can certainly imagine that the backing of a Sony or Panasonic is a large factor in the mass-quantity-buyer decision-making process.
 
Support for Red is going to be an initial problem especially for people out of the US. I think however that it will deliver a good image at a very good price point and about glass, get the best you can afford period. That $5,000 300 mm lens by Red will be a great addition to keeping the basic cost down. Red's where it's at but Barry's right Panasonic has great support and that's something Red will have to consider.
 
Barry is right with what he said about the Panasonic service net. I did´nt consider that point. But it is unavoidable that prosumer products get closer and closer to the high-end products. What happened with the DVX in SD will happen in HD, too - and I´m not only talking about the HVX or the RED (of course the RED is not a prosumer cam - but its price is a big advantage) So why give away a big share of the mass-market to other companies? Once the chinese will be able to offer a 2/3" cam for 9999$ there will be a loud and painful outcry. Anyway, like one of us uses to quote: "I´m brand agnostic" and will always try to get the best for my money.
 
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