What hardware do I need to shoot separately from the camera?

S

sbryan

Well-known member
I'm upgrading from a Sennheiser M66 shotgun mic to a Schoeps CMIT5U shotgun mic fairly soon. I think to capitalize on the quality of this mic, I should look into recording on an external device.

What external storage device do I need? Do I need a mixer? I would like to have wireless mics one day just for conversations. I saw Robert Altman's "The Player" recently, and I would like to mimic the sound design and experiment with the bed of sound theory.

This also means I'm interested in recording in post. If you wish, also suggest computer capture devices, computer speakers, and ideal room conditions.

Thanks.

P.S. I mean "record audio separately from the camera"

sillies.
 
Off the top of my head, I'd suggest a recorder:
Sound Devices 744t, 722, 702t, 702
Tascam HD-P2
Fostex FR-2
Marantz 670/660/671
Edirol
M-Audio Microtrack

The further down that list you go, the more I would say you need a nice mic pre since the built in pres get crappier as you get cheaper. For that I would again recommend the Sound Devices line - you can get 1, 2, 3, or 4 channels of pres in their mixers (Mixpre, 302, 442).

Make sure you budget in boom poles, headphones, cables, wind protection, bags, etc. I'm sure you already have some of this though. I would personally rather have a good shotgun and a good hyper than just a shotgun. I picked up a Senn MKH 50 and 60 for about $1700 which should be more versatile than just the Schoeps shotgun (which I'm sure sounds lovely). So pick up a hyper if you don't have one.

As far as a post setup, a good interface is worthwhile. I personally have a Mac and use a Metric Halo ULN-2 which I highly recommend. MOTU gear isn't bad on a Mac either. RME is highly recommended if you have a PC. I don't know much about the M-Audio interfaces. You could always get a Protools Mbox. I've heard its a so-so interface, but you do get protools.

Monitors can get very expensive. I am currently looking to get a set and am budgeting up to $1000 for them. I wish I had $1500... I am looking for a set for music mixing as well, so you probably would be able to get away with a lot less if you just are editing dialogue. Over on Gearslutz.com, the Bluesky Mediadesk gets ok reviews for around $400.

I'm not at the room treatment stage yet (still moving around too much). It's definitely worth spending the money on to treat your room. There are pointers online about doing this yourself for cheaper.

I'm by no means a professional at this, just someone having fun with it.
 
kidtexas said:
Monitors can get very expensive. I am currently looking to get a set and am budgeting up to $1000 for them. I wish I had $1500... I am looking for a set for music mixing as well, so you probably would be able to get away with a lot less if you just are editing dialogue. Over on Gearslutz.com, the Bluesky Mediadesk gets ok reviews for around $400.
Click to expand...

Check out these monitors:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BM5A/

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HR824/

The first ones a friend recommended to me, said they are awesome for the price. The seconds are the Mackies, which are killer monitors...some of the best I've heard. They are incredibly flat and very accurate, and have a decent low-end response.

For post gear, I'm a big fan of MOTU. They give you great products for a good price. Other audio gear would be a good analog signal processor (compressor, pre, EQ, limiter, etc). A good studio mic is essential as well.
 
I have always advocated recording separately from the camera, but I think you're setting your goal a bit too high for your first time out if you want to mimic what Altman does in his movies. Altman was the first to essentially mic every single actor in a scene and record each actor separately on their own track. (In the early days, this meant basically having a Nagra for every actor).

Now, that being said, if you have a small project with 2-3 actors, getting a recorder like a Sound Devices 744T would enable you to do this. But, if your cast is large, go the more basic route (unless you have lots and lots of money to spend for equipment and lots and lots of time in post.)

My personal recorder today is the Tascam HD-P2. The recorder I'm going to move to is a Mac with either Metacorder or BoomRecorder and either a Mackie Onyx FW mixer or a Motu Traveler as the interface. Metacorder and BoomRecorder are both starting to make in-roads in production recording at the high end, at a much lower cost than a Deva V or Cantar or HHB multi-track recorder.

Phil
 
ptalsky,

I used Robert Altman as an example because most of us like his work, and if we don't like it we can respect it for the progress it made in sound. (Like Star Wars, eh?)

I'm not looking to buy 4-5 mics now... but after I graduate -- oh yeah.
 
oneinfiniteloop said:
Check out these monitors:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BM5A/

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HR824/

The first ones a friend recommended to me, said they are awesome for the price. The seconds are the Mackies, which are killer monitors...some of the best I've heard. They are incredibly flat and very accurate, and have a decent low-end response.

For post gear, I'm a big fan of MOTU. They give you great products for a good price. Other audio gear would be a good analog signal processor (compressor, pre, EQ, limiter, etc). A good studio mic is essential as well.
Click to expand...

Yeah I'm looking at the Dynaudio's. I'd really like to get PMC TB2's with a big fatty amp, but it's stretching the wallet at this point. If I can hold out for a bit...
 
sbryan,

Don't get me wrong. I love Altman's work. I was just warning you that from an audio perspective, he is someone to aspire to be like, but just know that your investment level will go up significantly to do your sound design in the same way he does his.

And please, please, please, do not mention Star Wars to me. The mix on the last episode (was it 3?) was terrible. Considering the huge number of folks on the sound team, I would have thought that, at the very least, they would have balanced the audio and made sure that the microphone perspective was correct throughout. (And no, in this case, it wasn't a bad print. It was digital, in THX and still had way too many problems). Again, don't get me wrong. In general, what LucasSound/Skywalker/George Lucas/THX has done for film is amazing. Star Wars ep. 3 was just a bad example for me to relate to.

So, if we stick to Altman, Gosford Park's sound was great! ;-)

Phil
 
What advantages does the Hyper Mic provide over the shotgun mic? (Not implying that I'd buy a hyper mic over a shotgun mic)

By the way, I really like that Tascam HD-P2. Someone want to give me a 10k sound budget?
 
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