Question about scene changes

wingnut

wingnut

Member
Hi everyone:)

I've got a newbie question, about the length of scenes.

Basically, I'm working on a feature, with a writer at the moment. We are both new to this, although we've both done music vids and stuff before, but never a feature length drama.

We've got loads of help on board and everything is going OK for the moment, but to keep everything straight in my head, today I decided to breakdown the script into its component scenes, with info such as location, characters in the scene, and a brief description of what happens. I figure this will help me have a better overview of the script, as well as help with stuff like call sheets and stuff later.

Of course I hit a snag. Only a little one, and it is probably an irrelevant point but its annoying me, so I thought I'd ask. So in short, when does a scene begin and end? In my mind a scene will begin when a new scenario occurs, like say your character is leaving work, then New Scene as you cut to their house which is being burgled.

But what about if you have action taking place that moves through multiple locations. For example, you have a group talking in one room, 2 exit to another to get a drink, and the action follows them to the next room, they have a few lines then return to the original group. Would you class that as 3 scenes, or just 1.

So far the way I've approached it is to say the first is scene 5, the second scene 5a, and the third scene 5b. Why am I asking this? cause its probably a stupid question, but I just don't know the answer, and I've seen a few projects with scenes numbering 150+ scenes. So far I'm at about 46 scenes, I'm not quite finished (I decided to write it out on paper so my hand is killing me:crybaby: so I'm taking a break), but it'll probably number around 60 max.

So, am I just being stupid and paranoid, by obsessing over this, or does it actually matter, and am I infact going about it the wrong way?

Thanks in advance
 
Everytime the location changes it is a new scene. Each location should have a slugline (e.g. INT. LIVING ROOM - DAY) and for each change in location there should be a new slugline and it is a new scene.

Larry
 
Cool, Thanks Larry. Especially for the speed of reply.

Means I'll have to change my numbering but that won't take to long. I should clarify, I haven't wrote the script, and I'm really not that way inclined, my creative abilities on that front is sadly lacking.

But the writer is of course alot more skilled. I have indeed changed scene at every slugline as you suggest, just sometimes included a 5a, 5b, thing when theres only a small change, like from a living room to a hallway (sluglines included), with the conversation continuing throughout. BUT if it should change every time then thats what I shall do (there'll be alot more scenes).

OK so what about this, forgot it earlier. Lets say you have a group in a pub (bar), sitting at a table, one goes to get a drink from the bar and the action follows, (I'm not really obsessed with getting drinks, just an easy example). Theres one scene like this, its the only one, but theres no location change, and consequently no slugline (I assume cause its the same room). Of course the characters change (bar staff introduced), and we are now in a different part of the bar. Should that be a location and scene change, or is it fine as part of the original scene.

Forgive my ignorance, I've never really done anything with a script before, just storyboards, shooting lists, and vague concepts.

thanks
 
BIG DISCLAIMER: I am not a professional screenwriter. I have studied the craft for a couple years now, but have a long way to go before I'm a "professional screenwriter". I'm just giving you my two-cents and hoping it helps.


It really depends on the script. You can either make the new position within the bar a new location and put a slugline in, or you can use a mini-slug to indicate the location change within the scene, or you can leave it all as one big scene and just describe where they moved to who the new characters are, etc.

As a writer you have the flexibility to do it any of those ways. Which one you choose is mostly preference, but also depends on how much the new position/location impacts the overall story. For example, I have script set in a bus terminal so the slugline reads (INT. BUS TERMINAL - DAY) and then at one point I want to change the focus to the loading/unloading area of the terminal so I change the location with a new slugline (INT. BUS TERMINAL - LOADING AREA - DAY). Then when the focus returns to main part of the terminal I put the original slug line in. I chose to do it this way because it is a new character coming from that location and also because with this story I want both locations viewed as different places, even though they converge and the character passes from one to the other. I needed to highlight the fact that the new character was coming from outside of the mini-world where my protagonist currently resided.

If my protagonist was the one in transition, moving from the main terminal to the loading area I would probably have used a mini-slug to indicate the new location; for example:

INT. BUS TERMINAL - DAY

JOHN DOE (30s) walks through the terminal bumping other travelers along the way. He continues on passing into -

LOADING AREA

where he walks up to the bus and sets down his luggage.
Click to expand...
That's probably not the best example, but it hopefully gives you an idea of what I'm talking about.

Also, because you are writing the script for yourself, you are free to do what works best for you. If it makes more sense to you to use 5a, 5b, etc to mark certain scenes then do it.

Hope this helps,
Larry
 
You may also want to think of SHOT in addition to scenes. A shot may be just a different setup within a scene.

ex.

INT. LIVING ROOM - DAY
your action happens here.

CLOSE ON <shot>
one of your characters

BACK TO SCENE
back to the original action.

This could be 1 scene with two camera setups.

Another way of following the characters from room to room would be:

INT. HOUSE - CONTINUOUS
where we follow two people from room to room.

This is probably a tracking scene since we are following the characters.



EDIT: this one of the great things about the screenwriting software. It can number the scenes for you. But as Larry said, if your are writing this for yourself lots of options open up. If you are using some kind of production software like Gorilla it will interface with Final Draft 7 OR MM Screenwiter to break down your screenplay for you, giving you breakdown sheets, call sheets, stripboard and many more things.
 
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Good call Blaine...I was thinking in terms of spec script not shooting script. Of course you could/would have shot information as well.

Peace,
Larry
 
AH, cool, thanks guys.

Now interesting thing, Like I said I've never really worked with a script before (storyboarded music vids mainly), so I've never really seen this sort of stuff, but obviously the writer (not me) has. So I'm playing a little catch up in this area. As the script breakdown is mostly for my benefit (at the moment), I just started writing it in a way that made sense to me.

But after just checking back, the only time I've introduced this 5a, 5b thing is when the writer has indeed used the Slugline

INT. LIVING ROOM - CONTINUOUS

and only where the continuous, is used, never on a normal slugline

INT. LIVING ROOM - DAY

So, I suppose back to the original (but updated) question. SORRY I should have noted that. Therefore if a Slugline reads

INT. LIVING ROOM - CONTINUOUS

Is that then part of the preceding scene, and consequently have the same scene number, or should it be treated separately and given its own scene number, (not my arbitrary odd numbering)

In this case, I suppose I'm thinking about later, so I can lift scene details directly from the breakdown, and have a concise overview of every scene, with a constant numbering system so everyone knows where they are, what they're doing (espescially me).

Don't get me wrong we're not talking about a 3 hour epic here, I just like to be organised, and make sure everyone communicates effectively, especially if a procedure is already in place for handling this information.

Thanks for the replies, sorry to keep bothering you it, but it really helps
 
Sorry blaine I missed the edited part of your post.

I'm not sure what software the writer has used, but I'll check, to see if what he use's can do automate that stuff. If it can then I got writers cramp for absolutly no reason. oh well....
 
Again, since this is for yourself you are free to do what you want. If you want to get completely technical, you are only supposed to ever use "DAY" or "NIGHT" at the end of a slugline. Anything else is technically not allowed. That said, however, I have used and see CONTINUOUS and others used often.

If it reads "INT. LIVING ROOM - CONTINUOUS" I assume that is coming from another location (previous slugline is a different location), otherwise there is really no reason for the slugline. So then you would be changing locations and it would be a new scene.

But, as I've stated a couple times now, this is for yourself...so you are really free to number it in a way that makes the most sense to you.

Peace,
Larry
 
INT. HOUSE - CONTINUOUS
would be its own scene, most likely a tracking scene and would get its own number.
 
Fantastic thanks guys, you've completely cleared this up for me.

Larry, sorry, I didn't mean to for you to keep repeating stuff. :dankk2:
 
No, I wasn't complaining...just making it clear that it was an important point. The reality is, that unless you are trying to sell the script most of this is trivial. If it makes it easier for you to do it differently when you are working on your own project, then do it differently - just be aware it is different :)

Glad we could help.

Peace,
Larry
 
When writing a 'spec' script, we use what is called "minisluglines" which is a FANTASTIC way of changing scenes all within one area. This helps in the read of the script for sluglines slow down the read as to where, minisluglines do not. I will use your idea as an example:

INT. LIVING ROOM -- NIGHT

A handful of dvxusers lounge about as Wingnut and Blaine hold a heated discussion on softdrinks.

WINGNUT
Pepsi sucks, it's Coke hands down. Have you seen that girl on rollerskates in that commercial.

BLAINE
So you're going to base the entire taste of a softdrink on a commercial.

BRICEMAN
You got that right.

CHARLI
You guys are so sexist.

WINGNUT
I'm going to get another drink.

Wingnut walks

INTO THE KITCHEN

followed close behind by Blaine.

BLAINE
Listen, Coke is out. Red Bull is in. Energy drink is the wave of the future.

Wingnut refuses to listen as he opens the refridgerator and grabs a bottled coke. He drinks the coke as though it were water and belches so loud that it's heard from the other room.

CHARLI (V.O.)
Wingnut, that's so gross.

JARED (V.O.)
Jesus, Wingnut.

WINGNUT
I bet your stinkin' energy drink can't do that.

Wingnut smirks at Blaine, walks back

INTO THE LIVING ROOM

where the gang is totally engaged in playing Yahtzee. Blaine enters, leans against a wall.

BLAINE
I need to make new friends.

****

When you add voice from another room, you use V.O. which means Voice Over. The only time you can use minislugs is when it's within the same location. You do not use "inserts" to show close-ups of the can inside the refridgerator, that's a directoral direction that does not need to be on the script. If you have any questions, email me.

Hope this helps.

Charli
 
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Just a lil clarification: V.O. (Voice Over) is used to narrate or is what's going on in a character's head. None of the characters in the scene can hear a voice over. If we (the audience) can hear a character that is not seen (for example, someone saying something off screen from another room) you do not want to write V.O. The direction is O.S. for OFF SCREEN put next to the Character cue (O.C. for Off Camera works too).
As others have said, it sounds like what you want is CONTINUOUS. You can also use the mini slugs. Basically, you just want the reader (in this case, you) to be clear on what is meant. You do have some wiggle room to put in your own style. This is not to say ignore all the "rules" of screenwriting. They are in place for a reason ( i.e. 1 page= approx 1 minute screen time, etc.), but if this is for your benefit, you can wiggle some. But the above comments by others are all good. Awesome forum, no?

Besties,

Mischief
 
What Charli said, use minislugs, don't break this into seperate scenes. Just wanted to insure you get what he's sayng here, it'll save you a lot of trouble. Go pick up Trottier's Screenwriting Bible for details on use.

Oh, and just being nit picky here but it's...

'walks into

THE KITCHEN'

or

'walks into the

KITCHEN'

Only the location itself should be in caps in a minislug.

Good luck!
 
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Whaddya mean by "scene"? That's the big question.

Bob and Mary get into a knock-down-drag-out fight one morning, starting in the bedroom, tumbling down the stairs into the livingroom, through the kitchen, into their separate cars, then slaloming down the neighborhood streets.

That's the Bob & Mary Fight Scene.

Some might call it a "sequence", but I wouldn't.
 
It occurred to me around 2:30am that I had used V.O. instead of O.S. - uh,
couldn't sleep last night. The proper term is O.S. - off screen. I'm currently
working on a script with a voice over, so sorry for the confusion.

Minislugs allow for a smooth read, quicker pace to your script. I would not
however overuse them.

Charli
 
GenJerDan said:
Whaddya mean by "scene"? That's the big question.

Bob and Mary get into a knock-down-drag-out fight one morning, starting in the bedroom, tumbling down the stairs into the livingroom, through the kitchen, into their separate cars, then slaloming down the neighborhood streets.

That's the Bob & Mary Fight Scene.

Some might call it a "sequence", but I wouldn't.
Click to expand...
For me it would depend on how it was shot...i.e. one continuous tracking shot (then 1 scene) or set ups in each room (on a tripod?) in which case I'd have a scene for each room and for me it would be a sequence. Maybe that's just me but that's how I see it. :)
 
Whoa,

I'm in the UK so I've just got in from work and found all these replies, Thanks everyone for the help.

As regards the script, here in the UK, (not sure if this applies anywhere else), you can gain access to public funding, in varying degrees, of course this is not certain, but we'll be applying anyway. So although we may end up funding the entire project ourselves, hopefully (fingers crossed) we'll be able to get grants of up to 50%.

Which is why I want to make sure I'm right on this point.

So the way I'm approaching this is to make each slugline a new scene, simply for logistical purposes, (everyone on the correct page and all that), as thats what everyone suggests.

Thanks again.

But quick question mischief, the script does indeed us O.S. for off screen, but you've mentioned V.O. being voice over, and not heard by the rest of the characters in the scene, (like an aside in a play, I assume). But our script uses V.O. as voice over for narrated parts (one character tells a story to others whilst the action plays out on screen), so the characters ARE aware of the dialogue, its also used in a phone conversation, for the character who is not in the shot. Is this OK, or should it be a different direction?

Oh and Charli - have you been talking to my wife:Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)
 
Wingnut - lol

OS - is voice in the scene but not on the screen which can be heard by other characters (i.e. people in living room can yell out to characters being filmed in the kitchen).

VO - is narrative like hearing someone's thoughts, being inside their head.

Charli
 
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