Switching from FCP to Vegas

How about looping video regions and changing FX, keyframes, etc. on-the-fly while literally watching the changes happen on the looping video AS IT PLAYS. Got to love that.
 
ullanta said:
FCP makes automation (keyframing) audio a little harder than it needs to be, and for me ties too many things (such as, e.g., panning) to clips rather than tracks. Does Vegas handle this better?

And a bit more about the surround... do you know what algorithm is used for surround panning, what the controls are like, and what types of surround plug-ins are included/available?


-Barry
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My brother uses Vegas 4 for ALL his audio remixing. He swears by it and his results are awseome.

Don't know about the Algorithm for surround, but as far as controls and setting up hardware, it is FAR easier than Premiere or Audition. I haven't tried sound on a newer version of FCP or in programs like Nuendo or Cubase, so I can't comment on those for comparison.

But as far as doing great sound, with the plug in chain and right click opening in Sound Forge for heavy hitting, Vegas rocks ass.

It's surround panning is easy. Just enable 5.1 in your properties, click on Automate in the Audio track you want, and then right click where you want to make changes. Or, simply play the file and work the pans in real time, hell, you can even hook up a joystick to do it, though that sounds ('scuse the pun) a little extreme.

I dunno if you can use VST, I'll look into it. Dave prolly knows though.
 
Aza said:
Yup, it's greener for me here in FCP land now. Remember I was a Vegas user for a number of years solely and I still think it's a kick arse system and I promote it to all PC owners I know who are interested in editing. But for me it's hard to not talk about FC Studio because that's what I was comparing when I switched (But my main impetus for switching was the OS, not the apps). Things that I did not like about Vegas compared to my experience with FCP.

Media Management - Vegas' media management is very poor. The v6 Media Manager was slow and boggy. Useless for project management IMO.

How Scrubbing always marks selection areas. Always hated systems like that, always will.

I haven't tried FCP's network rendering, but Vegas' was troublesome and very unstable. And I did try numerous times.

Editing, once you have the keys sussed, you're quicker in FCP - well is for me.

Capture and logging in FCP, is more powerful.

It's more industry standard.

And I have to mention DVD Studio Pro, Livetype (Try finding anything half decent on the PC that doesn't look like it's made in the 80's with an archaic interface and doesn't cost the earth), Motion, well Vegas can't start to compete here. I know there's a big price difference, about $1299 vs $650 (This is site retail) but I feel you get more than twice the power for the price difference. (And you can buy an old version and upgrade for $199 at the moment)


Believe me, I don't want to start a war here cause I think they're both great pieces of software and there are things that truly SUCK about FCP too and from time to time I REALLY, and I mean REALLY miss Vegas (audio tools mainly). And I didn't get WOW moments either, except, believe it or not, with Livetype. That little "freebie" is wonderful IMO. Vegas' titling sucks, and when I searched around for alternatives they all were awful until you paid many hundreds of dollars.


Regards to the total cost of ownership, it generally includes software for sure (And we are talking about 'normal' users who want to manage photos, web pages etc) but also includes the troubleshooting periods. I'm a software engineer, so I'm the family computer guy, where I'm always asked to come repair someone's Windows box cause it's spat the dummy, or infected with viruses. Without me, they'd be spending hundreds in shop fees. That said, I agree, you can build a gruntier box for cheaper, I did it for years before switching......but OSX is just so damned sexy ;)
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If you like the workflow better, then so be it. Can't argue with that; it's as personal a preference as you can get.

But again, you can't fairly compare everything in the FCP Studio bundle and Vegas all by istelf. You can get, say, Vegas + DVD and After Effects for the same price as the FCP Studio bundle -- are you really going to say Motion is more powerful than AE? And Vegas has lots of available plugins, too, and comes bundled with some free, like Boris Graffiti for titling.

(Besides, Vegas's compositing and effects capabilities are superb on their own.)

I don't mind at all that you prefer FCP to Vegas; no skin off my nose. But "way more powerful"? I really don't think you can make that case. Not comparing them directly 1 on 1, without the add-ons.
 
You can use VST, starting with Version 6.

You do all the looping, sound, etc., directly on the timeline. Effects can be added either to the track or to the clip. Panning is done on the track; keyframes can be point-click or can be recorded on the fly. Envelopes include panning, volume, etc. Fades are handled on the clips (if you want); each clip has separate gain envelopes. There are numerous options for the shape of fade curves.

NO idea what tha algorithm for surround panning is. As for the controls, you get a graphic representation of the speaker layout, and you click where you want the sound to be. It creates keyframes automatically. You can mix for either a home-theater setup or for a movie theater setup.

As far as the 24p handling and workflow, it's capture, drop, edit. With either pulldown. It doesn't get any simpler or quicker than that. (Check out the tutorial vid at the top of the forum. You'll see an shot of the surround panner, too.)
 
Tainted said:
How about looping video regions and changing FX, keyframes, etc. on-the-fly while literally watching the changes happen on the looping video AS IT PLAYS. Got to love that.
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Yeah. Actually, I demonstrated that an Avid Liquid user group, and there were gasps.
 
David, no I can't say "way more powerful" comparing Studio to Vegas - that's unfair. But as I said, that's not how I compare. And yes it is a workflow, OS, feel sort of thing.

I miss Vegas, but I don't miss Windows, nor PC's. The guys at Apple need to learn a thing or two from Vegas about realtime editing. Vegas was pretty much one of the first in a low cost package to do this, and they do it well. In fact I'd say they still do it better than most others.

Aaron
 
David Jimerson said:
As far as the 24p handling and workflow, it's capture, drop, edit. With either pulldown. It doesn't get any simpler or quicker than that.
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Yeah. But I prefer to discard pulldown-added frames on capture; other than when/how they handle pulldown removal they're both pretty much the same capture-drop-edit ease.

As for audio - does Vegas do sample-accurate editing/syncing, or does it granularize to some fraction of a frame like FCP?
 
JoeFowler said:
Fellows-

The CFO of our company is tired of spending money on Macs. So... they have asked me to see what it would take to switch to PC's for all our editing needs.

Here are my concerns: Can Vegas import a FCP project? And, because I know that it is already unlikely, is there a plug in that can do it?

We are in the middle of a dozen projects and switching right now seems unwise. You don't need to tell me that "just stick with what you are doing" or "why do they want to switch in the middle... don't they know..."

No, they don't. They are business men. They care about money. It will cost less to move to PC. But if there is no way to import exsisting FCP projects into Vegas (or another PC compatable NLE) then the whole idea is moot.

So, what can be done?

Thanks guys.
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Yikes, if they are businessmen concerned about the bottom line then they should know that virtually every study of total cost of ownership and return on investment favors Macs.

http://www.michaelhyatt.com/workingsmart/2005/09/mac_vs_wintel_t.html

Forget initial costs which are actually quite comparable, but support costs for PCs vs Macs run something like 4 to 1.

Bad decision IMO.
 
Do you really need to move projects from FCP to Vegas? Certainly you could phase machines out as projects are finished...?
 
ullanta said:
As for audio - does Vegas do sample-accurate editing/syncing, or does it granularize to some fraction of a frame like FCP?
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I don't think it gets all the way down to a single sample, but a superfly audio guru may say otherwise.
 
Sound Forge can go down to the sample, and I believe if you turn "quantize to frames" OFF in vegas you can sync to anywhere you want. Just zoom in baby! Remember, Vegas started out as an audio app. Also, not sure if anyone mentioned this, but Vegas allows for full DAW motorized faders and automation.
 
Yeah, you can move around pretty well when you turn "Quantize to Frames" off. Don't know if it's down to the sample, though.
 
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