Two Questions... First, Best Wireless for Feature?
- Thread starter HowdyDoo
- Start date
what other shot gun you have ?
never was impressed with sc-1 ,quit noisy and thin sound
might be better to invest in good hyper cardioid for interiors since 66 is one of the worst i know .
akg have a good 580+63 system ,as well the mbho works fine (603+500)
wierless mics - that s a budget thing - you pay more- you get more
good systems are in 2-4 k$ range before the capsule
never was impressed with sc-1 ,quit noisy and thin sound
might be better to invest in good hyper cardioid for interiors since 66 is one of the worst i know .
akg have a good 580+63 system ,as well the mbho works fine (603+500)
wierless mics - that s a budget thing - you pay more- you get more
good systems are in 2-4 k$ range before the capsule
soarprod
Veteran
I have the CS-1 and really like it - very warm sounding to me (it has a little self noise but its side rejection is great) It is designed for interiors being a hyper-cardioid mic. It is very short and light which is great for your boom op. I think for the money, you cant go wrong with it.
sell the the 66 , i
buy audio technica or used 416 for exteriors and good hyper cardioid , better to have 2 good options then one bad , movies are 80-90% one mic , the other 10 you can live with , 2 match mics good for wealthy people , you other hand need as much as possible variability to work in every situation
for 2 k you can get 2 used 195 d with 2 used sankens or countrymans
better then have one better wireless ,since usially there is dialog in movies and not monologues which usially close up with over head mic
my 2 shekels
buy audio technica or used 416 for exteriors and good hyper cardioid , better to have 2 good options then one bad , movies are 80-90% one mic , the other 10 you can live with , 2 match mics good for wealthy people , you other hand need as much as possible variability to work in every situation
for 2 k you can get 2 used 195 d with 2 used sankens or countrymans
better then have one better wireless ,since usially there is dialog in movies and not monologues which usially close up with over head mic
my 2 shekels
wabbit
Evil has Ears
Totally agree with Oleg here.
The Sanken CS1 is way too noise compared to what else can be bought in that price range. The CS3e OTOH is a impressive mic that, while still a bit on the noisy side, works well in a variety of situations. I don't have one (yet) but if you are looking for one mic to get you thru the most situations the CS3e is probably the best choice. I want to get one for noisy indoors with moderate reverb. Those "inbetween" situations.
As a disclaimer: plenty of people have nothing but good things to say about the CS1. Take a listen and decide for yourself. It will definately sound better then the ME66 (god I hate that mic).
Stereo shotguns is not something you will find much use for. Plus if you want to record X/Y stereo you will want a matched pair, not just 2 of the same model. Buy an indoor and outdoor mic instead of two of the same kind.
One W/L is not particularly usefull on anything but commercial shoots. If you are using one W/L for a film 99.9% of time you will need at least two or more. There are a lot of used 200 series Lectros for sale these days as people, like myself, clear out their stock for 400 or Zaxcom. The 200's are still plenty good. Try ebay or the used section of one of the location audio shops.
Good luck
The Sanken CS1 is way too noise compared to what else can be bought in that price range. The CS3e OTOH is a impressive mic that, while still a bit on the noisy side, works well in a variety of situations. I don't have one (yet) but if you are looking for one mic to get you thru the most situations the CS3e is probably the best choice. I want to get one for noisy indoors with moderate reverb. Those "inbetween" situations.
As a disclaimer: plenty of people have nothing but good things to say about the CS1. Take a listen and decide for yourself. It will definately sound better then the ME66 (god I hate that mic).
Stereo shotguns is not something you will find much use for. Plus if you want to record X/Y stereo you will want a matched pair, not just 2 of the same model. Buy an indoor and outdoor mic instead of two of the same kind.
One W/L is not particularly usefull on anything but commercial shoots. If you are using one W/L for a film 99.9% of time you will need at least two or more. There are a lot of used 200 series Lectros for sale these days as people, like myself, clear out their stock for 400 or Zaxcom. The 200's are still plenty good. Try ebay or the used section of one of the location audio shops.
Good luck
Okay, since I'm surprised that no one else has said this yet, have you searched the archives of this forum? Your questions have been asked repeatedly, and the same answers (well, a little variation) have been given.
As to your primary question, I think it's been answered well above. I'm not sure why you intend to record in stereo (and Wabbit is right, you have to have a matched pair, not just the same brand and model). Please search and see my previous comments about the ME66.
Again, this too has been covered lots of times, but it is highly advised not to use the same mic indoors and out...though certainly you do not want to use a shotgun on interiors.
As far as the CS1 goes, some mixers that I respect have recently posted on another forum that they really do not like the CS1 at all. For a much lower price, you can get an Octava and solve your indoor problem.
But, ultimately, I have to agree with Exile...hire someone that knows what they're doing and learn from them. Most mixers will have a wide variety of equipment at their disposal, so you can watch and learn, then decide if you want to own sound equipment or not...because it isn't just about having a mic or two and a boom pole.
Phil
As to your primary question, I think it's been answered well above. I'm not sure why you intend to record in stereo (and Wabbit is right, you have to have a matched pair, not just the same brand and model). Please search and see my previous comments about the ME66.
Again, this too has been covered lots of times, but it is highly advised not to use the same mic indoors and out...though certainly you do not want to use a shotgun on interiors.
As far as the CS1 goes, some mixers that I respect have recently posted on another forum that they really do not like the CS1 at all. For a much lower price, you can get an Octava and solve your indoor problem.
But, ultimately, I have to agree with Exile...hire someone that knows what they're doing and learn from them. Most mixers will have a wide variety of equipment at their disposal, so you can watch and learn, then decide if you want to own sound equipment or not...because it isn't just about having a mic or two and a boom pole.
Phil
HowdyDoo said:
Okay, let me preface this post by saying that I'm having a really bad night tonight...but I still need to say it:
Why do you think your time is more valuable than ours? We repeatedly answer the same questions numerous times, but you got a little tired, so you expect us to answer again just for you.
And, you don't listen to the advice given you. How many people in this thread have told you that using the same mic indoors and out is not advised...but you're still looking for a mic that will do it.
Okay, I'm done ranting...if anyone thinks I've gone too far, tell me off-line and I will delete my post.
Phil
Steve Shovlar
DVXuser Sponsor
HowdyDoo, 6 months ago I was asking similar questions, but soon realised the [people on here are a good bunch bt sometimes get fed up with hearing the same questions over and over. I asked them as well so don't worry. everyone has to start somewhere.
Within a few weeks of reading, and re-reading this section, you soon realise what is good to what is mediocre. by doing this I have chopped in my stuff a couple of times and now feel I have a good audio setup.
This is what I have for a feature we are "hopefully" making laster this year.
Outside.
Shotgun mics:
Sennhieser MKH60. Also have a Sennheiser MKH-416P48. Rycote Windshield and furry. Boom pole.
Lavs: Countryman B6 X2 withLectrosonics 110 system X2 (possibly will upgrade to 200 series.)
Inside:
Schoeps CMC6 with MK41 capsule.
I am yet to buy the Tascam HD recorder. Looking nearer the time of shooting to see what best deal I can get. Would like the Sound Devices 722 but I have a budget I try and stick to.
If you follow what I have purchased you won't go too far wrong. One thing I have learnt, is that the ME66/K6, the first mic setup I purchased, sucks compared to the MKH60 or 416. You can pick 416 P48 mics up on ebay for about £300 ($550-600) Worth every penny. But only for outside.
Within a few weeks of reading, and re-reading this section, you soon realise what is good to what is mediocre. by doing this I have chopped in my stuff a couple of times and now feel I have a good audio setup.
This is what I have for a feature we are "hopefully" making laster this year.
Outside.
Shotgun mics:
Sennhieser MKH60. Also have a Sennheiser MKH-416P48. Rycote Windshield and furry. Boom pole.
Lavs: Countryman B6 X2 withLectrosonics 110 system X2 (possibly will upgrade to 200 series.)
Inside:
Schoeps CMC6 with MK41 capsule.
I am yet to buy the Tascam HD recorder. Looking nearer the time of shooting to see what best deal I can get. Would like the Sound Devices 722 but I have a budget I try and stick to.
If you follow what I have purchased you won't go too far wrong. One thing I have learnt, is that the ME66/K6, the first mic setup I purchased, sucks compared to the MKH60 or 416. You can pick 416 P48 mics up on ebay for about £300 ($550-600) Worth every penny. But only for outside.
Jeremy Ordan
Major Contributor
HowdyDoo said:
This comment was just too important for me to overlook and not chime in on. You say that you are shooting a feature yet you cannot afford or are unwilling to have crew. I understand the need to do a project and the constraints that can put on you, but do you honestly believe that you can do anything with this project unless you have a sound person?
Here are the possible scenerios to be blunt:
1. You do the sound yourself as your describing. It will come out sounding like garbage regardless of what mics you purchase, so you might as well use the on camera mic because you can't do anything with the project anyway
2. You get a sound person, post an ad on craiglist or in the job section here. There are always people who are willing to work on a project in their spare time for credit, learning experience, or because they believe in the project.
That's my opinion. I just started production on a short and I own a lot of audio gear. I'm not touching a microphone for this project at all but leaving it all up to my sound person, and this is for am 11 minute short film.
Remember, sound is 70% of the film experience, so if you don't take it seriously then you are handicapping your project before you get started.
-Jeremy
Just to echo somewhat what Jeremy (The Yankee) and others have been saying: Features are BIG undertakings. Getting a good script, rounding up actors that will stick with the project for low/no money, scouting and obtaining locations, determining what gear you need and procuring it, makeup, costumes, continuity, lights, sound, etc. And you still haven't pressed the record button even once!
If you check this section daily for a month, you'll see several people asking questions similar to yours. This happens all the time, and is what has resulted in the bit of mild rebuffing directed your way. Basically what you get in this forum is access to working professionals (and dedicated amateurs) who are more than willing to answer all types of questions, even occasional dumb ones. In order to keep all of these nice people who are donating their time (off topic: Why is it that in Eastern cultures one who gives you something without pay is honored, while in Western cultures that same act is scorned) from burning out, we have set up a nice sticky up on the top of this section to point people with basic questions in the right direction.
IF, after reading the sticky and the indicated threads you still have questions, then everyone here is willing to help. But if a person doesn't want to invest the time to wade thru pre-sorted good info, then why should the people here invest the time to help them further?
You seem like a nice enough guy, HowdyDoo, and perhaps we're just a bit sensitized lately from multiple people asking questions and expecting a perfect solution to get Hollywood sound on camera for under $300. I think if you hang around a bit, you'll find people more than helpful. But it is expected that people on this forum invest a small amount of time (relative to the amount of time invested by some really smart people-not me) in reading the sticky and the other linked threads indicated in there.
If you're still reading this semi-rant, then I would suggest that you at least need a separate person to do sound, whether that person is you with someone else shooting, or someone else.
Also, it's highly recommended to do a few shorts before tackling a feature. It helps to work the kinks out of the system.
If you check this section daily for a month, you'll see several people asking questions similar to yours. This happens all the time, and is what has resulted in the bit of mild rebuffing directed your way. Basically what you get in this forum is access to working professionals (and dedicated amateurs) who are more than willing to answer all types of questions, even occasional dumb ones. In order to keep all of these nice people who are donating their time (off topic: Why is it that in Eastern cultures one who gives you something without pay is honored, while in Western cultures that same act is scorned) from burning out, we have set up a nice sticky up on the top of this section to point people with basic questions in the right direction.
IF, after reading the sticky and the indicated threads you still have questions, then everyone here is willing to help. But if a person doesn't want to invest the time to wade thru pre-sorted good info, then why should the people here invest the time to help them further?
You seem like a nice enough guy, HowdyDoo, and perhaps we're just a bit sensitized lately from multiple people asking questions and expecting a perfect solution to get Hollywood sound on camera for under $300. I think if you hang around a bit, you'll find people more than helpful. But it is expected that people on this forum invest a small amount of time (relative to the amount of time invested by some really smart people-not me) in reading the sticky and the other linked threads indicated in there.
If you're still reading this semi-rant, then I would suggest that you at least need a separate person to do sound, whether that person is you with someone else shooting, or someone else.
Also, it's highly recommended to do a few shorts before tackling a feature. It helps to work the kinks out of the system.
HowdyDoo
Well-known member
sorry for asking a repetitive question. i've deleted my posts out of respect. i won't post here again.
you mentioned making some shorts....
here are some shorts and a music video i did with my dvx.
my goal is not to achieve technical perfection but to create good content.
http://quickmechanism.com/movies/dadfamily.mov
http://quickmechanism.com/movies/batman.mov
http://quickmechanism.com/movies/theseagull.mov
http://quickmechanism.com/movies/gottagotta3.mov
i'm just trying to make stuff i enjoy. sorry to be a pain.
you mentioned making some shorts....
here are some shorts and a music video i did with my dvx.
my goal is not to achieve technical perfection but to create good content.
http://quickmechanism.com/movies/dadfamily.mov
http://quickmechanism.com/movies/batman.mov
http://quickmechanism.com/movies/theseagull.mov
http://quickmechanism.com/movies/gottagotta3.mov
i'm just trying to make stuff i enjoy. sorry to be a pain.
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Howdy,
No one (well, at least me) is saying that you should not post here again. The only thing we ask is please check the archives first, and when we offer suggestions, please absorb them. Too often we end up with this kind of dialogue:
Q: What microphone is best for mounting on a camera and still get great audio?
A: None.
Q: But I really need to use a camera mounted microphone and I only have $300 but if it doesn't sound good, I can't get into festivals, so please help me and tell me how I can do this.
A: There is not a microphone made that can give you great sound when mounted on a camera.
Q: But I really need one.
A: Well, maybe you could try a <insert microphone here>.
Q: But I can't afford that microphone.
Etc. etc. etc.
I think that all we ask is that you understand that we are not trying to stop you from making movies that you love...just trying to provide guidance on how you can make movies that you love and that others will love too.
Yankee's suggestion is a good one. I've done several projects where all I have been paid is money to cover my expenses and fed (with a promise of more if the movie is sold...etc.). If the director is a mensch, if the script is good, I am always open to negotiation, and I know many others that are too. Most of the time I would rather be out doing sound for little or no pay than sitting at home on my rump waiting for another job to come along...
So, try Craig's List in your area. You might also find a sound newcomer that is available to help you, and you, in turn, can help him/her.
(See, after I've had my morning coffee, I can be a reasonable person. ;-)
Phil
No one (well, at least me) is saying that you should not post here again. The only thing we ask is please check the archives first, and when we offer suggestions, please absorb them. Too often we end up with this kind of dialogue:
Q: What microphone is best for mounting on a camera and still get great audio?
A: None.
Q: But I really need to use a camera mounted microphone and I only have $300 but if it doesn't sound good, I can't get into festivals, so please help me and tell me how I can do this.
A: There is not a microphone made that can give you great sound when mounted on a camera.
Q: But I really need one.
A: Well, maybe you could try a <insert microphone here>.
Q: But I can't afford that microphone.
Etc. etc. etc.
I think that all we ask is that you understand that we are not trying to stop you from making movies that you love...just trying to provide guidance on how you can make movies that you love and that others will love too.
Yankee's suggestion is a good one. I've done several projects where all I have been paid is money to cover my expenses and fed (with a promise of more if the movie is sold...etc.). If the director is a mensch, if the script is good, I am always open to negotiation, and I know many others that are too. Most of the time I would rather be out doing sound for little or no pay than sitting at home on my rump waiting for another job to come along...
So, try Craig's List in your area. You might also find a sound newcomer that is available to help you, and you, in turn, can help him/her.
(See, after I've had my morning coffee, I can be a reasonable person. ;-)
Phil
Jeremy Ordan
Major Contributor
ptalsky said:
Great point Phil. Although I'm not a sound professional by any means I have done sound on a couple of local projects and as long as it is something I believe in, then I'm willing to work for nothing (as long as I get fed). Why do I do this? Kharma... I ask people to work for free on my projects all the time. Then again, when I am doing a higher end project, I always hire someone because to a certain extent you get what you pay for (when I work for free I am still serious about my job, but there is a difference when you volunteer versus it being a paycheck). Still, this is a great option because sometimes you will find people with tons of gear and a willing attitude who are just interested in working on a project.
ptalsky said:
I thought I had the exclusive rights to be the DVXUser who uses Yiddish in his posts... What's up with that?
-Jeremy