Choosing camera angles & shots that edit well and help tell the story.

J

JJ Alexander

Active member
I'm looking for info to learn the language of camera angles and how to shoot shots and scenes that will edit well and add to the stories emotion etc. I realize all directors shoot in there own style but there must be a basic rule of thumb as a foundation to then depart from as one gets more comfortable with filmmaking.

I just read that while shooting 'Find Me Guilty' Sidney Lumet explained to Vin Diesel why he chose each shot and the reason for each camera angle and movement because Diesel expressed an interest in directing in the future. (Lucky Vin)

Can anyone recommend DVD commentarys where the directors talk about shots and angles and why they chose them? Are there any good books that teach this? Film school is not an option for me and while trial and error is great I want to learn from as many sources as possible.

Steven Soderbergh explains a lot about casting, shooting, rehearsing and improvising with non-actors in his commentary track for 'Bubble'. ALSO, Conrad Hall and Sam Mendes discuss technical stuff in the 'American Beauty' DVD. I'm looking for more of this kind of commentary and/or books etc.

Thanks for any ideas.
 
I was reading your post and was about to recommend "American Beauty" but then you already mentioned it.

My favorite independent film from the past year, "Mean Creek" has a good commentary track with the DP on it (and a lot of other people as well, but I definitely got an insight or two).

In my experience though, nothing has helped me learn angles as much as shooting and more shooting.

Chris
 
You should get the Man On Fire SE DVD...there's a whole section on the 2nd disc that deals with how Tony Scott storyboards sequences, chooses shots, etc. It shows you the different angles for each shot and he tells you why he chose them, how they translate into the story...very interesting.

The DVD also has 2 great commentary tracks, one with Tony Scott where he talks more about the process and one with the DP who describes the different approaches to making that film.

And, it's just a great movie too...
 
Christian,

Those bonus features sound great. I will have to check them out. I just wish I liked this movie more. I love the beginning and middle, but the end just left me cold.

Chris
 
I would study as many films as possible. Find some older Hitchcock, Welles, Spielberg stuff with commentary and listen to those. I would study the shots in movies, watch how scenes/shots are juxtaposed against each other. There is a book called The Five C's of Cinematography that is pretty good.

Some other good movies to check out are Robert Rodriguez's (his commentaries are usually pretty good and insightful) as well as City of God.
 
Thank you all. I've seen 'Man On Fire', loved it and thought it was underated but I know I'm in the minority. I haven't seen the commentary so I'll do that. 'Mean Creek' as well. I'll look at all your suggestions. Thanks
 
CMessineo said:
Christian,

Those bonus features sound great. I will have to check them out. I just wish I liked this movie more. I love the beginning and middle, but the end just left me cold.

Chris
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That's interesting...I love that movie and couldn't think of a better ending. You should rent the DVD though 'cause it has an alternate ending that you might like better...

There's also a 1 1/2 hour documentary on the 2nd disc that goes into a lot of detail about the making of the film. It's amazing to see scenes with 15 film cameras going at once. That Tony Scott...loves his excess...
 
This book helped me out a great deal and I think that you'll find it most helpful. "Film Directing Fundamentals" by Nicholas Proferes.

Recommended by our friends on the board.
 
Pretty much any Robert Rodriguez DVD with his 10 minute film schools help me. He's full of knowledge and always happy to share on his DVDs.
 
Something I like to do when I'm planning out a scene is to make a rough birds-eye sketch of the location and make camera placements within it. Here's an example:

http://www.christianremde.com/set_layout.jpg

This way, I can get an idea of how many set-ups I'll have, be able to see if I'm getting good coverage of a scene, etc. And it really helps my DP to get a sense of how the shoot is going to go...

The one above is for a short film I'm shooting that takes place in a bar....
 
My Nelflix list is getting all this good stuff. Amazon also!

Rightfrog: Looks like were in the same neighborhood. I'm on Saint Marks Place between 1st and 2nd ( best hood in Manhattan for my money). I noticed there others on DVXusers also down here. Doesn't surprise me with all the creative juices flowing in this area alone.
 
East Village! Represent!

Yeah, there are a few people that live down here...in fact, I'm hooking up with one of the guys tonight at Mo Pitkins on A between 2nd and 3rd at 8pm...you should come by. Have a drink...
 
jkc123 said:
This book helped me out a great deal and I think that you'll find it most helpful. "Film Directing Fundamentals" by Nicholas Proferes.
Click to expand...
Kudos. Reading it now, or again should say one read through isnt enough =) But goes through that well. Also "Shot By Shot" by Katz is pretty good too. Ice-Cub reccomends so hey! =)

Of course all the books in the world wont give you all you need, watch movies, be aware, get to know the terms, and know ONE movie like you know the back of your hand, or back of... something. If you can describe any scene in one movie and what the reasoning was, what the affect is, blocking, blah blah you'll know more than most.

And of course, applying it in experience. I learn best by doing. Practice. I'm still a complete green tit when it comes to directing.

Oh and don't forget your actors. Blocking, setting up your shots, working with your DP, making sure the audience knows that this loaf of sourdough represents this man's soul is crucial to convey, but... dont overlook the directors real fundamental job =) your thespian minions. Something I have yet to learn. Im all talk no meat when it comes to that.
 
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I'll throw in my .02 and recommend Shot By Shot as well. But I have never seen any resource as thorough and informative as the Hollywood Camera Work DVDs. I still can't get through the first one because there is so much info on it. Commentary is great for insight on artistic choices and indivdual methods, but you have to know about the palette these folks are choosing from. The HCW DVDs are the best investment I ever made after my camera.
 
rightfrog,

Thanks for the headsup on Man on Fire. I got the special edition at Kim's. Tons of good stuff on the comm. and docu.

I was booked the other night, thanks for the invite. I'll be at the next meet at B&H.
 
No one can teach you what camera angles to use. That's your own voice.

The only way to learn is to keep making and watching movies. Look at your favorite films and ask how the camera angles that you see help the film. Then shoot your own stuff and figure out what works, what doesn't, why it works, and why it doesn't. Honestly, the problem with most people is that they don't think and experiment enough. Make sure there's a reason for every shot you shoot and make sure that reason effects your audience, either conciously or subconsiously (the latter being better in my book).
 
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