DP of "24" hit tv show does a adapter and camera shootout

[CineAlta]

Interesting that Keifer Sutherland said he can't give as intense a performance for a "small" camera (as a Panavision). I've heard talent say that before. Maybe someone should construct a large "shell" type enclosure to surround small 1/3" HD cameras? I once went to an NBA basketball game which was shot with these tiny Thomson (camcorder size) broadcast cams, in huge Canon studio-size enclosures (with Canon lens).

It could be similar to performace issues in music. I once heard Slash, guitarist of Guns N' Roses, say he can't record as good of a guitar solo, through a small amp in the studio, so they had to rent an arena, set up stacks of amps at full volume, for him to give his best performance.

Maybe there is something to expensive, large matteboxe's after-all, psychologically optimizing your talent?

 

[Poi Boy]

I am so glad to see the M2 get it's well earned kudos..... it is an amazing product for guys like me that can't afford to play with the $200K set ups. Thank you brian Valente !!
Aloha
-A

 

[D_and_G]

Great article. :beer:

It confirms a lot of the data that's out there. I anticipate the charming lads who'll come forward and and say (with regards to the noise) that Rodney just doesn't know how to light (I kid, I kid)

It's like everyone has been saying - each camera has its tradeoffs. Hence, pick the right combination camera for your needs.

I must say I'm impressed with JVC's responsiveness to the HD100's problems (firmware to fix SSE and working with their customers to lessen the CA issues). That's kind of what I'm hoping that Panasonics user base does - find ways to limit the 1/3rd chip limitations (noise) et al. which is already happening on this wonderful forum. I look forward to their third part article in Post-pro workflow. Now if only we could get them to do a filmout with all cameras, then we'd be sterling.



BTW - what does the M2 plus a good set of Nikon SLR lenses go for ?

 

[R Gale]

BTW - what does the M2 plus a good set of Nikon SLR lenses go for ?

The M2 "Indie bundle" which includes the m2 adapter and 15mm rods is about $1,000.

Nikon SLR primes can be had for pretty cheap... under $1,000 could get you a decent set.

 

[D_and_G]

Sweet. :beer:

 

[oneinfiniteloop]

I found that to be a very informative article for the current crop of cameras, even though they did not elaborate as much on the HVX. We obviously have to take the good with the bad, these guys are looking for something else in their cams, and your average "indie" filmmaker is looking for something all his/her own as well.

Point being, keep it in perspective.

 

[dhffhd]

But I just want to point out -- it's completely a mischaracterization to say Panasonic didn't want to help. Panasonic bent over backwards to try to participate."

__
Well, if a professional DP (shooting a major network show) can't be trusted to get optimal results from the HVX, I'm screwed. 'Course, I can barely get a tape in right side up in my DVX.

 

[Rhydon]

I think they are looking for the best all-round performer. The HVX did not deliver to their "perspective" yes, but exactly what is their perspective- they are trying to shoot a show for Prime Time using 1/3" cameras. They want to emulate the closest look to 35mm film as possible.- i donno about you but to me that sounds like a pritty good perspective to the average "indie" filmmaker.

Interesting to point out they found the HVX the noisiest of them all
Also, i didnt know the HD100 performed so well, good job JVC for getting out of the fire!

 

[Rhydon]

But I just want to point out -- it's completely a mischaracterization to say Panasonic didn't want to help. Panasonic bent over backwards to try to participate.".

That sounds much better!

 

[kidtexas]

Also, i didnt know the HD100 performed so well, good job JVC for getting out of the fire!

I know this is the HVX forum, but I'm pretty pleased with our JVC - free IDX battery, charger, and mount to boot!

 

[Barry_Green]

"Well, if a professional DP (shooting a major network show) can't be trusted to get optimal results from the HVX, I'm screwed. 'Course, I can barely get a tape in right side up in my DVX.

A professional DP who's never seen the camera before? A camera that uses a workflow he's probably never seen before? I know a lot of professional DP's who'd be extraordinarily hesitant to pull a brand-new camera out of the box and be expected to deliver top-notch results with it. I'd think most, if not all, would be reticent to be put in that position.

 

[Jan_Crittenden]

Anyone that has been waiting for an HVX200 knows that the supply chain has been limited especially back in January before the second shipment came in. When Steve Baker and Taylor Wigton contacted me my review cameras were out to magazines that came to our launch party, that was living by the commitments we made. I simply did not have a camera to offer them. I did offer to pay for Barry to come as DIT with his camera.

From reading the article I think that they really do not understand the difference between HDV and DVCPRO HD. That's weird. And I can only say I have one set of shots that totally counter their findings on the noise and mine is on a bright blue sky.

Meanwhile there are members of the ASC that own an HVX, like James Cameron, Steven Soderberg, and Francis Ford Coppola. There are projects n the works that will show what this camera is able to do. There are projects that were started with the JVC and now have moved to the HVX. It is a great little camera, the images that it is able to render show it, and the better you know the camera the better you can get out of it.

Any of you that started with the DVX and have produced a battery of work with it all know this to be true. The first 50 rolls of film I shot with my Nikon prove that this is true. My average for good shots out of a roll increased to what I find is a good average to me of about 14 really viable out of 36. So I am not a great photgrapher but smart enough not to show the bad ones. ;-)

Best regards,

Jan

 

[booth]

It's quite telling in the article that the camera that they recommend is the camera that they had the longest amount of time with - the JVC HD100.

I myself read that article and thought... "How the hell did they get the most out of that camera after such a small amount of use."

 

[The Machinist]

Maybe there is something to expensive, large matteboxe's after-all, psychologically optimizing your talent?

That's an interesting point you raise. And I'd say that with most actors you'd be right. However I'd like to think the really great actors will give it their all despite the type, size, or cost of the equipment used to convey their performance.


At this point I've gotten a chance to use all the prosumer HDV cameras and among them I liked the look I got with the HD-100. However I'm reserving my judgements till I can get an HVX in my hands and see what I produce. And that opportunity should be in the next month or so. I'll try to post some clips when it happens.

 

[tim_brown]

Meanwhile there are members of the ASC that own an HVX, like James Cameron, Steven Soderberg, and Francis Ford Coppola.

Best regards,

Jan

Just to clarify, none of those listed above are members of the ASC. I can only assume Jan was refering to the DGA.

Hope this helps.

 

[booth]

personally, lens breathing doesn't bother me as much as the 100 less lines of resolution the HVX has bothers me. You gotta pick your poison on these cameras.

This bothers me. If you put footage from the HVX, HD100, Z1 and XLH1 through high end grading hardware you find that the HD100 does pick up approximately 100 lines more, but that doesn't mean it's recording more visual information. We found that actually the HD100 recorded a bit less information even though it was recording more lines of res.

To explain, you could read tiny words from a colour chart from all of the other cameras - but the HD100 was just pixels and the HVX200 was just a bit better, but you could make out the words on the HVX. This was with a Davinci2k system with a 25 thousand pound (that's UK £) high definition CRT monitor. This may be an optics thing, and with better glass this may be different.

And that said they were all exceptionally close but the only one you couldn't read was the HD100 - though the Z1 and XLH1 hadn't been hardware deinterlaced. I suspect there would be some resolution loss from these cameras after that.

We got pretty much the same results as this Barry Green post (apart from Z1 wasn't CF so looked sharper than FX used in Barrys example):
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=448119&postcount=23

 

[mmm]

I did offer to pay for Barry to come as DIT with his camera.

I think they were right to do that. None of the cameras had specialist operators so people may have shouted "bias" if you had have paid for Barry to be there.

Also it reflects a real world shoot.

If I choose between camera X, Y and Z, I won't have Barry there to explain how to use it, I will have to figure it out myself, just like they did. They are more than qualified to be able to do that.

Still, it was a very nice offer of you. rogar-BigGrin(DBG)

 

[nycfilmmaker]

DVCPRO HD is much better for editing, needs less juice from the processor. HDV with its inherent virtual frames makes it more complex to edit among other things.
the article missed a lot of the great features of the HVX. even if the HVX technically only captures less resoulution, it's still native 24p and renders great images. DVCPRO HD is true HD.

 

[Justyn]

Jan et all... This camera and its sales seem to be such a success without much magazine or media fanfare. I do think there's also a much aligned biased against our bias for this camera.. if that makes sense. Almost a.. who are these guys and what's this camera that's jumping off shelves and simply KILLING the competition in sales. My dealer said that it's 10 to 1 for the Pannasonic over the other HD competition combined... And, it's only growing!

I'd be eager to see what some of the film masters can do with this camera.. I myself a hack, have been able to develop some wonderful video already.. And yes Jan, I"m also good at not letting the questionable footage see the light of day. That's for the uncut version...


I'm also so happy to see you around Jan and for your input and insight. I think that you should be so excited... about, well.. the excitment over this camera. 4 people that I know here in town have bought the HVX already and these are professionals and also filmmakers. Not like they needed another camera, but knew that it was a revolutionary one.....

I've done some side by side with the Sony and I'm so happy that I picked the HVX.. and the skillset this camera offers is finally inline with what I could do with a film camera without the inherent cost... I plan on doing two features this year.. and even if I buy 30 P2 cards... I'm still saving tons of money on filmstock and developing... plus I'll have it immediately there.. and without any film problems. I still have nightmares about my camera AC who exposed a full 16 hour day of complicated filmming... now that was unfortunate...


Kudos and thanks for the camera! It's going to help make some of us a lot of money.. and or some artistic/personal achievements....

This camera makes me excited about shooting again.. Excited about lighting... and excited about putting out my absurd brand of comedy. Maybe someone would even watch it... GASP!

 

[Jarred Land]

thanks Justyn.. i love hearing posts like that.