Everything that is wrong with this world

Did JayZ come from Iraq? Did he beg for scraps of food as a young kid in Africa? Was he beaten and tortured in Central America? So, why would you say he came from the **** in the toilet?! He grew up in America where his only choice was to sell drugs or to be a law-abiding and responsible citizen. The bottom line to his message: It's OK to sell drugs because one day you can be a rap star and when that happens you'll be able to stop selling and you can rap about your experiences.
 
Terry_Lasater said:
He grew up in America where his only choice was to sell drugs or to be a law-abiding and responsible citizen.
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Terry,
By no means am I defending gangsta rap or even Jay-Z in particular - I think my earlier post makes that clear. But I'll say this about street kids, hustling and drug-dealing: I don't feel comfortable outright judging the kids form very neglected urban areas who feel they have few other options than street crime and street economics. I am fortunate (and grateful) in that I had two supportive parents, decent schools, no harassment from cops (that I didn't somewhat deserve anyway), the means to higher education, etc., etc. Unless you grew up a minority, poor, neglected, villianized by the media, and felt the double-standard of law enforcement regarding the wealthy vs. the poor (look at sentencing statistics for kids dealing cocaine in the suburbs vs. kids selling crack in the ghetto) I thinks it's a bit unfair to judge. I sure as hell don't know how I would have turned it in such an environment. Now some may call this "the bigotry of low-expectations" but I call it reality.

What I object to is the glorification of that lifestyle by those who have been able, by whatever means, to aspire beyond that. These are people who know how tough it was for them - who undoubtedly have friends and family dead or in prison, but still choose to blatantly advocate the dead-end lifestyle they were lucky enough to escape.

I live in a less-than wonderful neighborhood in Chicago (area code 60647 - run the crime statistics) and I see what some of these kids are up against given their home-life, the criminally negligent public schools, and harassment by cops. I've seen really sweet 10 yr. old kids be talked to like trash by cops here for no reason. I've seen good teenage kids be harassed for simply standing on the street IN FRONT OF THEIR OWN HOUSE threatened with arrest if they don't stop "loitering". I've also seen dedicated, concerned hard-working cops trying to help and I can even sympathize with short-tempered cops who see horrible violence and danger forty hours a week. So, I don't think choices for these kids are as simple as they may seem. When you're treated like a criminal just because of where you live, your education sucks which prohibits learning necessary job skills, and you have little to no support system from your family, it's easy to see why kids choose gangs and crime.

Also, I'm a white guy from Nashville. I'm not trying to sound like I'm so "down", so tough or so "street". I'm not. I'm a softie from the suburbs, but seeing what I see on a daily basis forces me to try to see the world from a perspective I didn't grow up with.
 
Good post, Dustino.

btw, I was actually referencing Aaron's post, but I don't mean to insult anyone or their likes in my effort to express an opinion.
 
Terry_Lasater said:
The bottom line to his message: It's OK to sell drugs because one day you can be a rap star and when that happens you'll be able to stop selling and you can rap about your experiences.
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Terry,
Hope I didn't sound like I was pissing on your earlier post (did I?), that wasn't my intent at all. I agree with your basic point that many, even Jay-Z, aren't taking responsibility for their message even though they're not outright "gansta" talking about who they're gonna kill next. Just thinking alot these days about opportunities and lack-thereof.

I'm actually trying to research for a documentary I'm hoping to make about the crisis of inner-city incarceration rates, so I'm a little too "close" to this subject mentally. I'm also an obnoxiously opinionated bastard - I don't say that with pride so much as resignation to the fact.
 
dustino said:
Terry,
Hope I didn't sound like I was pissing on your earlier post (did I?), that wasn't my intent at all. I agree with your basic point that many, even Jay-Z, aren't taking responsibility for their message even though they're not outright "gansta" talking about who they're gonna kill next. Just thinking alot these days about opportunities and lack-thereof.

I'm actually trying to research for a documentary I'm hoping to make about the crisis of inner-city incarceration rates, so I'm a little too "close" to this subject mentally. I'm also an obnoxiously opinionated bastard - I don't say that with pride so much as resignation to the fact.
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No, just wanted to make sure I didn't offend as I, too, am an OOB. :)
 
terry,
you said "The bottom line to his message: It's OK to sell drugs because one day you can be a rap star and when that happens you'll be able to stop selling and you can rap about your experiences."

sorry my fellow dvxuser, but i believe you have the whole hip hop community twisted. in no way, shape, form, or fashion does jayz promote drug dealing. when people look at hip hop from an outside perspective, sure they see the "drugs, money, girls,..." but if you actually sit down and listen to the lyrical content then you will get a better understanding. and i would not stereotype any one rapper, just b/c a few other rappers promote garbage.

also, until you have lived in the poverty stricken ghetto, then you can not judge. i myself have not lived there, b/c i have a good family (blessed) that supports/ provides for me, but trust me ive seen it. try living in a project complex, where you have to ALWAYS keep your guard up b/c you have on a nice pair of shoes, or even if you have a freakin sandwhich in your hand. if the other person is hungry, and you have a sandwhich, you are liable to get your ass kicked b/c you have food.

sorry if i sound like im venting on anyone. im not! :)
 
Hey, we all have opinions and I'm damn glad to be living in a place and time that allows for the expression of such.
 
terry,

yeah we all have opinions and i can see where you have some good points. anyways back to talking about dvx100a issues :)
 
I hate when people bash on hip hop music just because the state of MAINSTREAM rap is horrible right now. I live in LA and I can tell you right now, there are hundreds of hip hop groups and/or producers out there that are really gifted and make GOOD QUALITY music but the majority of American society doesn't give them a chance. That is why all the good hip hop music is only loved by people like me and the like.

How can people honestly say rap music music is garbage when they only have listened to what is playing on the radio. When I saw this post http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=461000&postcount=44 in the oscars thread, it really made me sad.

I mean I grew up on hip hop and I can honestly say that HIP HOP is the one thing that actually kept me from joining gangs. My neighborhood wasn't super bad but a lot of people i knew around 93'-95' were in gangs but i stayed away from all that by practicing break dancing and popping daily. It also gave me an outlet to release some built up stress. I can just release all that battling people on the dance floor. And please dont confuse this with that lame movie bring it on(even though some people in the end were actually good).

Anyways, I LOVE HIP HOP and it will always be an irreplacable part of me and I wouldn't be the person I am today without it.

I do hate the state of rap music on the radio though. So, why don't we change it. Stop listening to the crap and support your local hip hop pals that have a good message.

To give note to the ignorant people that think all hip hop is garbage, here is some good hip hop artists that may change your mind. please listen and give it a chance.

Blackalicious
DJ Shadow
DJ krush
RJD2
Jurassic 5
Mos Def
Procussions
Longevity Crew
Arrested Development
Public Enemy
KRS-1
Jeru

I can go on forever...

and don't think I'm biased or anything because I listen to all types of music as well. Some of my favorites include Portishead, Kaki King, Zero 7, Theloneous Monk, RATM, Stevie Wonder, Amel Larrieux, and The Pillows(japanese) to name a few. I'm also actually a front man for a humble rock band.

Well, enough of my ridiculous rattle and ramble. I just wanted to give my 2 cents but I guess I typed way too much. I just want to ask you to not generalize rap/hip hop with what you see on TV and/or the radio. thanks for reading and good night.

-Paolo aka SLiNKS bboy since 92'
 
oh by the way TC, too bad those lyrics are from black eyed peas. They used to be one of my favorite hip hop groups until they sold out and went pop with fergie. oh well, money money money right?
 
slinks, those are some great hip hop artists!
my roomate showed me them, it's stuff he likes to skate to. I'm really glad because I didn't know about any of the underground stuff, which blows away the mainstream IMO.
 
another mainstream song I CAN'T STAND is that Laffy Taffy song.
The first time I heard it I said out loud, "are you serious!?"
Is that all it takes to be mainstream these days?
 
Very interesting thread...here's my outlook on the state of being for hip hop in modern culture.

Everyone here has made good points, but I think it boils down to this. Even if you're from the ghetto and you were slinging drugs, doesn't mean you should make that known if every way possible when you get rich and famous. Little kids will hear about that and create justification in your words, even when there is none.

Also, coming from poverty, it's hard, it's tough, and there may not be many options, but chosing to sell drugs to survive is an apathetic excuse for not overcoming it. Someone posted earlier that they don't have a lot of choice, well, I beg to differ. If everyone in the down trodden communities rose up and demanded change they could take the first step at stepping out of their poverty stricken situation. We all have a voice, and it must be used to promote change, not to make drug deals.

I quote my favorite hip hop artist, Zack de la Rocha from Rage Against the Machine...

"You can never silence the voice of the voiceless"
 
tjohara99 said:
another mainstream song I CAN'T STAND is that Laffy Taffy song.
The first time I heard it I said out loud, "are you serious!?"
Is that all it takes to be mainstream these days?
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Oh man I agree. That's the song that solidify's the sad state of pop culture these days. It's like the broad target market is anyone with an IQ less than 12.

Although, I was guilty of propogating it about 5 years ago. I engineered a WuTang album for one of the up & coming guys in the "crew". That was an "experience". :kali:
 
Most Country Western music is horribly degrading to women, often comparable to rap music, yet it's rap that gets the "bad rap" because country western is so very popular by mainstream americans and europeans. Why??? I figure that they either don't listen to lyrics (I would prefer this to be true) or because they're relating to the lyrics (what a frightening thought).

It it's simpliest form, music is just another means of comunication meant to influence the writers opinions onto others. Although there are some writers who just want to make the listener FEEL GOOD with their music......hmmm....what a good idea.

Marlene
 
John_Hudson said:
Arron Aaron Aaron.......

Duuuudddeeee......

Dont believe too much into the self-generated hype and profiles of these 'rap stars'. They're selling an image of being a tough, thug gansta from the hard streets growing up battling the cops in urban warfare and selling drugs to take care of the family....

It's BS aaron. It's part of the game. No one is gonna buy into the hype of the rap star who had a normal life and once worked at Rite Aid or Petco...

It's record companies hiring Producers to create personas.

(Generally speaking; yes I am aware there are a few legitimates)

As far as doing what you can to make money? Dude. That's the point of this thread I think?
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I have to agree with this one. For 7 years I worked on a lot of rap videos in Toronto. It's an act for sure.
Here is my day with DMX:

He showed up 4 hours late (nothing like burning everybodys time and money)
While we are waiting, I take his personal assistant to a shoppers drug mart to pick up Cocobutter for his tough gangster skin and some clear coat for his nails because every pimp has to look like a....flamer??

He finally shows up at the skydome with his "posse"...a health nutritionalist, personal fitness instructor, a massuse (hmm..bad spelling on this one I'm sure) and his personal skin/makeup artist.

That's raw dawg. That is straight from the streets.
When all was said and done i shook his hand and he got pissy because my grip was too tight. Maybe I should have just pinky shook.

Sometimes it was just normal. LL was a very considerate person and professional..but you can see that in his music and his blooming career. There is an example of an artist who doesn't turn to the gangster style.

I've been on sets where there was weed booze cops and guns as well which wasn't part of the video really. That's an intense situation to be in for sure. Sometimes people fall into their own little make believe world really hard and for kids out there it's even easier to do. I remember loving the aggression of NWA when I was a young kid. I loved Public Enemy even more and the gangster shlt soon subsided. Tribe called Quest, De La Soul..those were really good fun bands..I wish the powers that be would bring those kind of bands to light more often. But let's be honest here. Violence sells and mayhem sells. How many stories of humanity are posted here on the board? How many stories involve gun play, violence in general, sex and hardcore drug abuse? Maybe we're being a bit hypocritial and perhaps..racist. Think about it.

People that actually enjoy hiphop music will find what they are looking for. I don't personally base my music choices on what a record label is pushing radio stations, magazines and televison to showcase.

Kayne West seems to be the new voice of hiphop. I don't hear the gangster sound in his music really. Perhaps the balance is shifting. I think the big boys see the sales slippping and are starting to change direction. It takes time but it is changing. You still have the 50 cent persona out there but that's always going to be there. There has to be a bit of everything in the mix.

Man it really is hard out there for a pimp.

insert violence here:
:kali: :kali: :kali: :kali:

P.S- David Jimerson you're just getting old(er) and wiser perhaps. You need to look in different places. Message me with your musical taste and I guarentee I'll find something you like!:)
 
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Angrius said:
P.S- David Jimerson you're just getting old(er) and wiser perhaps. You need to look in different places. Message me with your musical taste and I guarentee I'll find something you like!:)
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If I messaged you my tastes and you found something I like, wouldn't that be something that sounds like something else?

It also isn't whether or not I like something; it's about being innovative, finding a new sound and new places to go.

What was the last innovative musical genre? Grunge?
 
Hard to say David. You haven't messaged me. The nickname is Angrius not The Amazing Kreskin. I'd love to help you find music that you could enjoy. Whether it may sound like something else would only be your perception of it. Snowflakes are not identical yet similar. Is music not music? I think a lot of people are having difficulty in finding things they like because lets face it not everybody is a monkey dancing around to whatever the dj plays.

I'm not sure I can help you with innovation. Try General Motors for that. Honestly innovation is a very obtuse subject and one invented by the media to make things easier for us so when we go to the record store we can ask for some Grunge music as apposed to an actual band. Innovation can mean Steve Vai and his obscure chord structures he invents. That does not interest me in the least unfortunatly. Do I enjoy the music is the question I'd have to ask myself.

Message me and find out. You never know. Unless you are so jaded that you don't really want to listen to music at all. Then I'd suggest picking up an instrument when you feel like that and just play. That's what I do.:)
 
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