Canopus report

Green Hornet

Green Hornet

Veteran
Barry,
I am waiting for the report of Canopus broadcast before spending any more money.

Adobe Premiere does not support the HVX200 unless you use ray light, which is too slow

Vegas does not upport the HVX200, unless you use raylight, which is too slow.

Avid cost more than the camera, to do it right.

Final cut requires the PC user (me) to buy new hardware. On the cheap, a mac mini, $600, and final cut studio $1,200. =$1,800
I think I would have a hard time doing that, mainly due to the mac mini, being the bare minimum machine to suposedly do this.

A full blown mac dual 2.0 gig set up like Barrys cost about $2,000, plus final cut studio $1,200= $3,200. Then the 20+ inch flat screen, and you're over the $4,000 mark. Not being a mac guy, that's a tough step to make to the end from a means.

I spent over 10 grand in the last 30 days on related items to the HVX200.

I can almost finish my workflow.

I just need to know if canopus broadcast is worth the $1,000 to allow me to use my 3 gig P4, 1 gig ram laptop, untill I can pick individual parts to build my dream system desktop.

For a guy like me, does it make the best sense to go Canopus to "edit now", to hold me off for 6 months untill either Premiere gets faster and supports the HVX200, or a better $2,000 solution comes along?


Don't get me wrong, I like the Mac, I just don't feel I will like it unless I spend $4,500 on it, and then I won't like it for the price.

Why isn't anyone talking canopus broadcast with it's straight editing of HD.
 
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I too have much interest in this subject. I have no Mac hardware, and it would be expensive (and redundant) for me to aquire any.

Anyone here with info on Edius Broadcast, please educate us.

Is it substantially faster than Vegas (or similar) with Raylight?

Does it utilitze a hardware dongle, and if so, could one install it on their laptop for use in capturing, as long as they move the dongle from their PC when they use it? If it doesn't use a hardware dongle, what kind (if any) of product activation does it utilize?

Does it require Windows XP, or will Windows 2000 work as long as you don't use the HDV function?

Can anyone post a PDF of the User Manual? I can't find one...


By the way, utilizing Google's "Froogle" search, I found this site selling Edius Broadcast for only $799: http://www.sharbor.com/products/CANN0320015.html
Looks like it's only on sale until the 15th, though...

Amazon also has a couple of copies (literally, at the moment) for $829
 
Green Hornet: What part of Va do you live. I will be glade to give you a demo on my Canopus Broadcast System's. Can't answer the P4 3 gig since I use a Dual Core AMD 4800 on my Laptop and a Dual Xeon 3,4 on my Desktop. The Edius is a lot more stable than my old system Matrox 2500 Adobe 1.5, It take's 2+weeksfor a n Adobe user to become aquainted with the timeline.
Your P4 might dissiapoint you if you tried to edit with it, There are very few of use Broadcast users on the list. and we are just getting up to speed. There is anothe guy that has posted from CA. on this list that works for a TV station I believe it was KORN, and WRAL in Raliegh is installing Edius Broadcast for the News gathering.
Mule Ferguson
 
Does it utilitze a hardware dongle, and if so, could one install it on their laptop for use in capturing, as long as they move the dongle from their PC when they use it? If it doesn't use a hardware dongle, what kind (if any) of product activation does it utilize?




The Dongle is a USB Flash Card that can be used on 2 computers, Lots of ? can be answered at canopus.com Or call the tollfree # for Canopus in Calif. . They are very helpfull

http://www.canopus.com/products/EDIUSBroadcast/index.php
Mule Ferguson
Pumpkin Creek Video
 
Thanks for stepping in there with some real-world answers, Mule.

My copy of Edius isn't here yet, and I fly out tomorrow and won't be back until Saturday, so don't look for any Edius reports from me anytime soon. Hopefully Mule and other Edius users can keep us posted on what the real story is with using this promising editing platform.
 
Barry_Green said:
Thanks for stepping in there with some real-world answers, Mule.

My copy of Edius isn't here yet, and I fly out tomorrow and won't be back until Saturday, so don't look for any Edius reports from me anytime soon. Hopefully Mule and other Edius users can keep us posted on what the real story is with using this promising editing platform.
Click to expand...

edius is fast. very fast.

faster than the final cut machine i screwed around with...

very stable too.
 
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edius is fast. very fast.

faster than the final cut machine i screwed around with...

very stable too.
Click to expand...

Fast and stable. Just the software only? No add on card?

Tech support says the GPU does a lot of the work for DVCPRO footage.
 
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BigMike said:
Fast and stable. Just the hardare only?

Tech support says the GPU does a lot of the work for DVCPRO footage.
Click to expand...

no, the software. edius the software. i don't know who is doing the work. hardware software underware. I don't know. i just know it's fast.
 
mule ferguson said:
Green Hornet: What part of Va do you live. I will be glade to give you a demo on my Canopus Broadcast System's. Can't answer the P4 3 gig since I use a Dual Core AMD 4800 on my Laptop and a Dual Xeon 3,4 on my Desktop. The Edius is a lot more stable than my old system Matrox 2500 Adobe 1.5, It take's 2+weeksfor a n Adobe user to become aquainted with the timeline.
Your P4 might dissiapoint you if you tried to edit with it, There are very few of use Broadcast users on the list. and we are just getting up to speed. There is anothe guy that has posted from CA. on this list that works for a TV station I believe it was KORN, and WRAL in Raliegh is installing Edius Broadcast for the News gathering.
Mule Ferguson
Click to expand...


I live in Richmond VA.
I expect that it will be disapointing to try and edit from my P4 3gig laptop.
That would only be a temporary solution for cuts only edits, to learn the HVX200, and the edius software. Currently I am using premeire 2.0 and it is about 15 frames when trying to display 24 frames...that is very annoying.
I prefere to stay PC based. even though I would love a full blown mac. I am just not ready to spend $4,500 on one.

I am willing to put that type of money into a PC...if it can give me what I desire.
I like the ability to custom build my system, and have a system that I can physically upgrade when one component becomes obsolete. A PC based system allows that. If it is functional to use broadcast on the laptop, I will do so untill I can get the new AM2 style motherboard that supports my ddr2 memory on hand.

....You asked where I live, I see you are in NC. how far is that from Richmond?
 
Richmond from North Wilkesboro is 41/2 or 5 hrs . I lived there about 8 years untill I got transfered back here to the Corporate Home of Lowe's I almost cried when I got the word. I loved that town. There is anothe guy on the Canopus form that has built a Edius System . You need to join the Canopus Forum. They are very good folks to answer your questions. If it had been for them I would have learned as fast on the system. There is one thing good you can make your timeline look like Adobe.
I say again with a good fast machine you will love this system.
I did pull my old FCP Powerebook out yeasterday and downloaded some footage shot in DV mode on the HVX. and will be editing today.
Even in DV mode this Camera kicks Arsh
 
My understanding (based on talking to canopus guys, and using other canopus cards within premiere, but I don't have edius broadcast to speak directly to that)

is that Canopus built special cards to speed up editing in the past.
Then, hardware video cards developed faster than the ability for canopus to keep pace with. With the release of direct x from microsoft, it made more sense for canopus to stop inventing new hardware accelerators (due to cost) and just implement direct x to access the speed of the video card to do all the work.
This was, for one, cheaper to do, as they did not have to come up with the hardware. All they have to do is come up with the software to interface existing hardware. Unfortunately at first, video cards switched from using Vram memory to Gram. The latter was great for 3d, but suffered from not being able to multi-task the way Vram did for regular 2d video, and video editing. That only lasted a short time, as the gameing on PC's took off, and faster technology emerged.
Now, there are very fast video cards out there today that can be controlled by software alone, using direct x and other means.
Had Canopus held on to their proprietary hardware acceleration methods, their systems would be obsolete in comparison to what it could be by riding the backs of ATI and NVIDIA etc. Now, when you upgrade your video card, you upgrade the speed of your editing as well.

For real time HD editing, you need a minimum system that is either:
hyper-threaded at 3 ghz processor,
or dual core at 2.0 ghz processor.
You also need direct x, and a video card that supports at least 128megs (256 megs recommended) dedicated ram, not shared.

Again, I have only edited with Premiere and some Vegas on canopus hardware accelerated cards ( I have old systems that only do SD). The information provided above is based on users and research , but not by actually using broadcast.

For me, canopus has served me well to be a stable system to work on.
That, price and the ability to set up my system the way I like, and freely upgrade as needed or when needed without buying a whole new system has value to me.
I really, really, want to implement my removable hard drive idea. That can only be done by staying PC based.

Am I alone in wondering why the G5 tower does not allow one to install another 5/14 dvd, or other types of devices such as removable tray drives? I love the looks of the G5 case, but it totally lacks the usable space on the front.

Anyway, from my experience, Canopus has always been a stable software /hardware company. My only reservations with them is that they no longer embed their system to work within premiere. The last time I looked at edius editing software, it looked like they were computer engineers (which they are) who had no graphics department what so ever. It was not intuitive, nor pretty, just functional if you could figure it out. I did not like it at all.

With the NEED to edit HD, that seems to be the best, least expensive, and most rewarding way to go now that I have already spent over 10 grand on the HVX200 system. I will wait for a few more to give feedback, but I think that is the way I will go.

Looking back on what I just said, it seems Canopus was the single reason Premiere is still around. Adobe needs to take notice and fast. When I used Premiere, most everyone I knew was switching to something else, due to not having real time, and long render times. I think the only people who held on to premiere were those who had some sort of hardware accelerations means, otherwise, Premiere was just too slow. I dragged my feet in switching to the new 2.0 interface, and now I like it. It really is good, like dating a girl who's qualities you only know, and like your favorite pair of jeans. Unfortunately, without the speed, I feel now will be the time that the rest of us will go to something else.
I can't feel sorry for Adobe, as they had years to figure this out. With 2.0, they copied everyone else's workflow and features, but did nothing to address the speed of the overall system.
 
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Green Hornet said:
That, price and the ability to set up my system the way I like, and freely upgrade as needed or when needed without buying a whole new system has value to me.
Click to expand...

Not to harp on my usual "product activation" rant, but keep in mind this may not be possible. I too like the idea of being able to upgrade at will, but depending on how this USB key works, it may not be possible. I have no objection to having a hardware dongle to assure that I can only use the software on one machine at a time, but I really hate the idea of activation.

This afternoon, I'm going to pose this question on the Canopus forums: does the USB key store some kind of activation code on its memory that keeps you from uninstalling the program and re-installing it on a new machine (one you pass the 2 machine limit)? Or does it simply serve as a hardware dongle, and you are just legally allowed only two concurrent installs? There's a big difference there -- with option 2, you could upgrade your motherboard to support new, better CPUS, but if it stores activation info, you may never be able to make fundamental upgrades. And if the software requires XP, a similar problem exists with your OS.
 
Cam-Ra said:
Does it utilitze a hardware dongle, and if so, could one install it on their laptop for use in capturing, as long as they move the dongle from their PC when they use it? If it doesn't use a hardware dongle, what kind (if any) of product activation does it utilize?

Does it require Windows XP, or will Windows 2000 work as long as you don't use the HDV function?
Click to expand...

it does use a little USB hardware dongle. my tech support guys at ProMax say that I can install Broadcast on multiple machines and just swap the dongle. the dongle is only for Broadcast, i could still use edius but not the special broadcast features such as P2 editing. i haven't verified this yet since i only have it installed on one machine.

the box for Broadcast says you need WinXP Pro or Home, no Win2000 support it seems.

i am still trying to get Broadcast installed on antoehr machine, a single chip P4 3gHz machine, however that won't happen until the Thursday or even until Wednesday of next week since I'm off work this upcoming Friday and Monday.

i've only used Broadcast a bit since installing it last week. i'm having trouible getting it to download and merge clips that span 2 cards but that is more likely because i'm doing something wrong (i tend to do things first and THEN read the manual). but what i've done with it so far is nice. the interface is very different than what i'm used to with Vegas and PremPro and that is both good and bad.

i will do my best to get more updates when i can but am short on time this week.

mule, what canopus forum are you recommending we go to for answers? the one at the canopus site or someplace like creative cow?

thanks
 
"My copy of Edius isn't here yet,"

Barry:
We are looking forward to hear a real Pro tell us about Edius Broadcast. Lot's of new stuff for me to learn with the Broadcast and DVCPro. I'm still shooting projects in DV (Freebies) and just playing around with the HD to be up to speed when $ projects are filmed.

Have a good Shoot.
Mule
 
Well I registered on the Canopus forums, and did some digging. The results are dissappointing...

--
Quote: Canopus_JR:

"Just to clear this one up early...

Edius Pro3 = Edius Pro3

Edius Broadcast = Edius Pro3 + Broadcast Options

Edius Pro3 needs to be activated.

Broadcast Options do not need to be activated because of the dongle.

Therefore, if you buy Edius Broadcast it still has to be activated. Removing and replacing the dongle simply removes or replaces the Boradcast Options only. "

--
I was really hoping Edius Broadcast would be the ultimate solution for editing footage for this camera. I guess I have to keep looking.
 
With Edius Pro3 you have a 2nd license included for free (not for concurrent use). Install it on your 2nd system and activate again. This is only valid for software versions. I have EDIUS Broadcast on a P4 system and I am going to install it on my new notebook too. Unfortunately I'll have to wait another few weeks to get my HVX200E (European Version).
 
I just bought it today. Should have it in a few days.
I think it sounds like something I can deal with.
I only need it to run on 2 systems (laptop, and desktop that I am building).

In the past my canopus systems have served me well, the canopus HQ codec for HD, sounds like it may also give me more room to correct color and black noise.
Hopefully it will allow me to get a better gradient if nothing else.

My 6 year old DV systems still work like day one. They are just dv though.
 
Green Hornet said:
I just bought it today. Should have it in a few days.
I think it sounds like something I can deal with.
I only need it to run on 2 systems (laptop, and desktop that I am building).

In the past my canopus systems have served me well, the canopus HQ codec for HD, sounds like it may also give me more room to correct color and black noise.
Hopefully it will allow me to get a better gradient if nothing else.

My 6 year old DV systems still work like day one. They are just dv though.
Click to expand...

Green Hornet,
Can you let us know what system specs are of the system you are testing it on? Both your laptop and Desktop. I am on the fence myself and look forward to hearing your results.

Peace!
 
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