highest gain before you see grain?

A

astigmatic

New member
Hi,

I hate grain, any sign of it. In low light, what's the highest gain setting before you start seeing grain? At 1/48 and 24p?

thanks
 
My max is set at +6. I used it once. I've used 0 a number of times, but I stay on -3 any time I am outdoors, or I am controlling the light.
 
Depends on the subject. If the subject and camera are not moving too much, I'd change the shutter. Otherwise I'd up the gain. But I try not to go to shoots under prepared. If I HAVE to come back with footage, and it HAS to be good, and my primary camera won't do it, I take a different camera.

The 60i mode is good for a full stop. I'd probably take that before I'd let the footage get terribly grainy. You can also do some work in the picture profiles to get half a stop or more, so work on that too. Maybe make a low-light setting.
 
-3dB. Even then I sometimes see grain if the subject is heavy clouds. Least noticable with scenes having lots of visual 'noise'.
 
interesting, I didn'tknow 60i gives more light and one stop is a lot more. Is that 24 in 60i container? If so, does that reduce resolution?
 
I've had clients that forced me to shoot in situations that were nearly impossible. They were told of the hazards, that the video would look awful (way too much noise). They didn't care. The lighting was what it was and could not be changed. Just do it!

I shot, on two occasions, with the gain up full -- +18! The noise level was, to my eye, downright horrible. I hated it. The client was tickled pink with the footage.

There are times, situations, and clients that create an atmosphere in which it doesn't matter sqwat what we think. You do what you have to do to get the shot for the person signing the check.
 
The highest gain, before you see grain?
Is a question that drives me completely insane
I can't figure it out
Perhaps I am to blame?
I hope I get answers
From Barry whatshisname...

Someone with too much time on his hands

.
 
You may be joking, but as somebody put it here already, this is not a properly asked question!

The thing is that when you need any gain at all, you're having grainy/noisy picture already (in dark areas). So frankly, gain can only correct this; in my experience 6dB looks much less noisy than an underexposed picture.
 
Alister Chapman at XDcam-user has a pic profile that he found gets a cleaner image. Different Cine gammas and Matrix settings have an effect on noise. I won't post his settings here because it was his work from his site.
 
Yep...1080/24p is the worst mode for low light on the EX1 and 1080/60i is the most sensitive.

But here's the caveat. The noise from gain at 24p is less noticeable than 60i. I don't know why/how but that's just how it is.

Using Bill Raven's Tru Color Profile 3 I am happy with 9 dB of gain. If I really need to push it for even work 18dB is even acceptable to me at 24p. At 60i past 6dB gain is noticeable.
 
Me Myself & I said:
The highest gain, before you see grain?
Is a question that drives me completely insane
I can't figure it out
Perhaps I am to blame?
I hope I get answers
From Barry whatshisname...

Someone with too much time on his hands

.
Click to expand...


Nice poem!

Anyway, the noise level by adding gain is much less noticeable than say the Panasonic HVX200. So this is a very legitimate question to ask. And the new PMW-350's noise with added gain is even much less. The noise reduction algorithms in these cameras/CMOS sensors are probably at reason.

By the way, everyone, if you are watching footage on a consumer TV please turn any TV noise reduction to OFF. When I got a Sony Bravia it had noise reduction set on by default. All the footage with added gain I shot with it looked soft. When I flipped this menu setting off all of a sudden everything was sharp again but with a bit of noise.
 
Here's a little test to determine which scan mode gives the most sensitivity:

Point the camera at a white card, dimly lit with indirect light. Turn on the EX1's light metering function (that % luminance indicator at center screen). Note the reading, say 47%. Change to another mode. Note reading. The reading is the highest on 720P/24. Lowest on 720/60P.

As for footage on TVs, a display with a high bit-depth less exaggerates the noise. Noise looks bad on my Vizio TV, but barely visible on my 30-bit InFocus projector.

But still, we try to shoot for lowest noise.
 
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