Other: The Sony ILME-FX6V Owners Club

Doug Jensen said:
S-Cinetone performs best indoors, in low-key lighting, shooting human faces, with exposure that are more suited to "cinema" style shooting rather than broadcast. If you put whites up around 90% where they usually need to be for typical broadcast, sports, corpporate, etc., the highlights become easily blown out and the color saturation suffers dramatically. Very ugly. But for certain kinds of interviews with controlled lighting and contrast, drama, etc. S-Cinetone can be fine. But I would also argue that S-Cinetone can almost always be improved upon in post, thus negating its purpose of providing a very good WYSIWYG look. So if you have to grade anyway (or should if you care enough) why not shoot with S-LOG3 and capture the maximum quality image for use in post.

It all depends on what you expect from the camera. I don't shoot feature films or drama, I shoot for TV, and the best choice for me on the FX6 is S-LOG3.
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Got it.
Thanks Doug, very useful advices.
S-Log3 looks fine also for me. I've time to play with post processing. Currently my main issue is to adjust the white clip point during the capture (with the reg709 LUT for the display) and what's the best place for the location of the delog in the post processing chain, to get the best dynamics. Not completely clear on that. Seems I get the best results if the delog is at the beginning of the chain, but with just a gain adjustment before to adjust the white clip separately for each clip. I need more practice on that.
 
Doug Jensen said:
Actually, I would welcome object tracking to the FX6. Why not? I just had no idea what he was talking about. Sometimes it is difficult to decipher what people mean when they don't use the correct terminology or elaborate to explain. Thanks for clarifying.
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Oh ok, I thought you had said you couldn’t see where
that would be needed. But yeah it’s confusing
as I’ve seen it called everything from ‘touch tracking’
to ‘real time AF.’ Basically anytime I’ve seen anyone
complain about the autofocus on the FX6 is
because they have an A7siii and the FX6 won’t do
the object tracking like the A7siii will. Because
really the FX6 autofocus is really good, it just
happens to be missing a feature that it’s ‘near sister’
camera (or at least first cousin) has. So people
want to see it on the FX6. I’d like to see it too
but I will still give credit where it is due, the
autofocus on the FX6 is already awfully
good.
 
Still playing with the 100-400 + 2x Extender on the FX6. Moon is 2 days off full, clear night. Shot using S&Q 4fps on a 50fps base, No ND, F32, Mix of 800mm and 1200mm (clear Image Zoom). This lens looks nice and sharp to me! A bit of handling wobble as I zoomed in/out at this focal length but I'm pretty impressed on the detail you can get at these sort of focal lengths. This clip is longer due to the the 4fps over 1fps but the better temporal resolution works. What do you think?

https://behome.dyndns.info/index.php/s/AZk5oKmMH7xtJZA
 
Doug Jensen said:
Actually, I would welcome object tracking to the FX6. Why not? I just had no idea what he was talking about. Sometimes it is difficult to decipher what people mean when they don't use the correct terminology or elaborate to explain. Thanks for clarifying.
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Sony calls it "Real-time Tracking (touch tracking auto focus)" So that's how they name it. The current FX6 does face and eye tracking but not real time tracking. You better learn the Sony lingo.
 
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J.Brown said:
Sony calls it "Real-time Tracking (touch tracking auto focus)" So that's how they name it. The current FX6 does face and eye tracking but not real time tracking. You better learn the Sony lingo.
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Actually, it is you who should learn the Sony lingo. I looked this subject up in the A7Siii manual and there is no mode called "Real-time Tracking" or "Real time AF". Yes, there is a mode called "Touch Tracking", but you didn't use that term in your earlier post -- so how was I to know what you were talking about? Please use the right lingo so others can understand your comments better.

BTW, my FX6 already has real time AF tracking (obviously any AF would be totally useless without real-time performance) but it does not have a "Touch Tracking" mode.
 
I'm sorry you can't tell the difference between AF tracking and face/eye tracking but I know the difference and I think it would really add to the great focus system that's in the FX6.
 
J.Brown said:
I'm sorry you can't tell the difference between AF tracking and face/eye tracking but I know the difference and I think it would really add to the great focus system that's in the FX6.
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I'm sorry you can't understand that Face/Eye tracking is just a subset of AF tracking. There are many kinds of AF tracking, of which Face/Eye and Touch Tracking are just two ot them. That is why it is important to speak precisely so that others can understand whatever point you are trying to make. I am not a mind reader. Don't blame me if you can't express yourself properly. All I did was ask for clarification after your first post and then you try to tell me I don't know Sony's lingo -- lingo that it turns out does not even exist. Stop digging a hole and move on.
 
This seems like a silly dispute. Everyone knows what you're both talking about and nobody cares what the lingo is or who had it correct.

Doug - I was thinking apropos of our previous conversation about touch tracking that it's most useful perhaps when you only have part of the subject in focus. So, shooting a detail or someone's outfit at close range and only their shoulder is in sharp focus (or maybe you want their collar or their far shoulder.) Sort of like how eye AF zeroes in on the eye itself rather than the part of the human in the center of the frame or their closest edge or whatever. I'm not sure if the FX6 will lock onto a detail like that if you initiate tracking with the box pointed at it. But maybe it does? I had a shot in the back of my mind to post to your non-human thread but haven't gotten around to it.

Also very useful for tracking one thing and then racking to another thing mid-shot and tracking that. Which is all very useful on gimbal at least
 
You really don't use the right words Doug and your are wrong. For instance you wrote "My FX6 already does a great job of tracking in real time" Yes it tracks ATW but not AF. If you would have read the manual that comes with the FX6 you would have known this but obviously you haven't read it close enough. Nowhere does Sony mention AF tracking or focus tracking in the manual because there's no AF tracking. Sure there's phase/contrast AF and there's face/eye detection (which could be interpret like face/eye tracking) but nothing is mention about AF or focus tracking so is your FX6 a magical one that features things all other FX6 doesn't? I think not. It's just you don't know what you are talking about.

So to clear things. There's no AF or focus tracking in the FX6 as of now. Face/eye detection yes but no real-time AF tracking. All according to the Sony FX6 user manual, but maybe you consider it to be wrong?
 
J.Brown said:
You really don't use the right words Doug and your are wrong. For instance you wrote "My FX6 already does a great job of tracking in real time" Yes it tracks ATW but not AF.
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Yeah here we go again.
I never said my FX6 does a great job of tracking ATW, so don't put words in my mouth that I never said. Where do you get this crap? ATW sucks.
As for AF tracking, the FX6 already offers several modes for AF tracking. You hope that it gets another one, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have other types of AF tracking already. There are many types of AF tracking, if you don't get it by now, there is nothing more I can say so I won't waste my time trying to explain again. This all began because you were not clear and then take it as an insult that anyone would dare ask for clarification. Hopefully I will not have to post again on this topic, but I will if neessary. End it.
 
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ahalpert said:
Doug - I was thinking apropos of our previous conversation about touch tracking that it's most useful perhaps when you only have part of the subject in focus. So, shooting a detail or someone's outfit at close range and only their shoulder is in sharp focus (or maybe you want their collar or their far shoulder.) Sort of like how eye AF zeroes in on the eye itself rather than the part of the human in the center of the frame or their closest edge or whatever. I'm not sure if the FX6 will lock onto a detail like that if you initiate tracking with the box pointed at it. But maybe it does? I had a shot in the back of my mind to post to your non-human thread but haven't gotten around to it.Also very useful for tracking one thing and then racking to another thing mid-shot and tracking that. Which is all very useful on gimbal at least
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Abe, I agree with all that and I have the same questions about what exactly the new focus mode (if there is one) will lock onto. Just to be clear, I am not at all against adding new focus modes or any other features to the FX6. But in the case of this one, it is not something that interests me personally because it will probably require a touchscreen and I don't use touchscreens. But for other people it might be just what they need. Use it if you like it, and don't use it you don't. Simple as that.
 
right - not very useful when looking through an evf on tripod. on the ronin-s, I like to have my left hand on my side handle for added stability and weight distribution. but when I was pulling focus manually (as I used to do exclusively), then I had to have that hand glued to the focus wheel. so, I'm not making an operational compromise by using that hand to tap a touchscreen within reach of my left arm (in this case, a smartphone strapped to my right wrist controlling the camera via wifi)
 
Whatever the name you use to describe it, the ability to lock the AF in spot mode on an object (other than an eye) so that it can be tracked if it moves in the field does not work at all and even does not exist on the FX6. This feature exists on A7xx still cameras, on the FX3 and will exist on the FX9.
I agree that it would be very useful with a Ronin
What's fun is that this feature is implemented by DJI on the RS2, they call it active track. But since they are not able to implement the interface with the FX6 it can not be used with the FX6.
And as I said before, this feature can be used without the touchscreen you just need a button to lock the AF on the selected object at the right time. It's the way I use my A7R4 most of the time
 
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Does not means that AF tracking does not work. If you put the AF window in "wide", i.e. to track an airplane, a bird, a race car or a runner the AF does a quite good job and is able to detect the object that is supposed to be of interest :)
 
After several days of shooting with a combination of several (4 - 6) FX6 and FX9 cameras (and only 2 or 3 operators - to minimize people on set and maintain social distancing) I had gotten to the point of trusting and relying on the eye auto-focus as our subjects moved around. Then I ran into an issue. For one presentation the subject had a powerpoint on a large screen behind him. No problem as long as there were graphs and text on the screen. But when the screen image switched to photos the cameras that saw the screen in their shots decided to change focus to the faces on the screen rather than the presenter. Of course we were relying on autofocus since each operator was walking back and forth between two cameras (and it was almost impossible to get to the focus ring on the cameras inside teleprompter hoods.)

We had to pause and re-start the presentation after turning off the AF and increasing EI/DOF of the wider cameras to hopefully keep our talent in focus on the wider shots, so we could concentrate of manually pulling focus on the tight ones.

What I'm asking is whether there would have been a better approach - a different AF setting for the cameras?
 
I'm assuming you tried the shift sensitivity setting in the camera because that's what it was made for...to keep what's in focus and not let other objects change it or distract it. In your case it should be set to the locked on mode.

In the future, computers (cameras) will scan faces which you'll be able to choose to lock on to (can do this now to some degree with some cameras).

Although a rare occurrence in an interview setting, this setting should prevent the system from confusing itself with printed faces in the background or any crew walking on set to fix something mid-roll, etc.
 
Plus a couple more factors I should have mentioned --

Presenters wearing glasses that at some times pick up light reflections/glare - thereby obscuring their eyes.
Also the tendency to sometimes turn away from camera to refer to something (someone) on the screen behind them...
 
OnSet said:
What I'm asking is whether there would have been a better approach - a different AF setting for the cameras?
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You can register a Priority face so the camera will track that face whenever it is in frame and ignore other faces. Even if the face leaves the frame and returns later the camera will recognize that it has priority. Use the joystick to put the orange cursor under the face you want to track and then select it. The face with a double white box around it is the registered face.

https://vimeo.com/ondemand/fx6
 
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