I sold my AF100 and I feel fine
- Thread starter DustBowl
- Start date
How can it be "a first" when YOU suggested it just this month? http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?268370-Do-you-have-flare.../page4
Instead of spraying the interior black and using flocking paper I just decided to get another one that already had black inside. Problem solved....sooooo.....save the old workman never blames his tools quote for another post.
Flaring is different than the highlight problems.
The flaring issue referred to in your linked thread has to do with light bouncing off a metal or shiny surface inside the camera or adapter.
The highlight issue has to do with how the camera rolls off and clips the highlights. Different channels of the image signal are being rolled off and clipped differently, causing purplish haloing in details and yellow fringing in highlights that should probably actually be clipped to white.
The flaring issue referred to in your linked thread has to do with light bouncing off a metal or shiny surface inside the camera or adapter.
The highlight issue has to do with how the camera rolls off and clips the highlights. Different channels of the image signal are being rolled off and clipped differently, causing purplish haloing in details and yellow fringing in highlights that should probably actually be clipped to white.
Right, that's what I was asking at first when you confirmed. I had the purplish haloing in my images, but haven't had the problem since I got another adaptor.
Mickey Munday
New member
I stopped having the purple halo/highlight/whatever you want to call it issue when I switched adaptors too. Seemed to only happen with my Nikons.
Shooter
New member
I never blamed the oft mentioned "highlight issue" on the adaptor ..because I have never ever experienced it.
I have experienced a major flare issue ( twice in fact) and I did blame both those on the particular adaptor I used.
In both cases of flare I identified the issue and resolved it.
You appear to have done the same but mis identified the issue ( flares vs highlight). 2 very different things
FWIW : Highlight issues are resolved (IMHO) by dealing with the circumstances that create them . ( Photography 101)
I have experienced a major flare issue ( twice in fact) and I did blame both those on the particular adaptor I used.
In both cases of flare I identified the issue and resolved it.
You appear to have done the same but mis identified the issue ( flares vs highlight). 2 very different things
FWIW : Highlight issues are resolved (IMHO) by dealing with the circumstances that create them . ( Photography 101)
Well that's fine, then maybe what I had was Flare instead of "highlight issues". Which is why I asked initially if the so called "highlight issue" was the same as the purple haze seen in images before Mike said "Yes that and yellow in the highlights." I've never had any problems with highlights on my Af100 so I've never actually seen it if it looks different than the flare issue. I've also never really had any of the issues the orignal poster says Panasonic needs to fix either though. Overall I'm satisfied with the camera.
Guess that quote from earlier doesn't mean much then.
Guess that quote from earlier doesn't mean much then.
Paul Hudson
Vacuum Tube Member
Seriously? How long will this continue.
PaPa
New member
The AF100 is trying to do something similar to the GH2 in cinema mode. Its simply got a curve thats trying to hold on to as much detail in the high end as possible until it completely clips. The good news is that it gives the user more latitude, but the bad news is that it's not really useable latitude. If you had a different curve, that detail that is held but turning yellow/blue would just be gradually blowing out instead of trying to be held. It is simply data that you should not recording but the gamma curve does so that it can have "more dynamic range". But that's not the same as real world dynamic range.
I think people should be ignoring trying to recover those yellow bits at the top end and just apply a curve to blow it out evenly across all channels in post. But i do understand the issue that sometimes you don't always have control of the hottest spots in your image and that you want them to look pleasant to the eye right out of the camera. If that's the case I think you don't want to be using the Cine gamma curves and go for something that doesn't try as hard to hold on to the detail in the high end like HD norm or one of the others. At the end of the day, that blown stuff is just blown but trying hard to be held on to.
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Rolf Silber
New member
We will not sell our AG-AF and will very probably either buy another one in January and/or rent one or two for a string of webisodes we may shoot. And we will most probably not regret that a bit.
I like the form factor a lot (with some minor regrets), highlight issue is in my view next to a non-issue (if you don't expect it to behave like a cam four times the price and use the waveform monitor), picture quality is in my experience good, minor problems with the codec in post are solved with a Samurai .... and: The price is really, really nice. What I have saved there I invest in glass & else. That's it for me.
I like the form factor a lot (with some minor regrets), highlight issue is in my view next to a non-issue (if you don't expect it to behave like a cam four times the price and use the waveform monitor), picture quality is in my experience good, minor problems with the codec in post are solved with a Samurai .... and: The price is really, really nice. What I have saved there I invest in glass & else. That's it for me.
Bern Caughey
New member
The "Highlight Issue" is my major beef with the AF100, & I am considering much more expensive solutions, particularly the C300.
I figured it be there even before the AF100 was released, as all previous Panasonic Broadcast's cams had the "issue".
But I love the AF100 for what it does, & have intercut it with Alexa, RED, WEISSCAM, & Phantom, footage. And so far no client has had a technical complaint with the results.
I figured it be there even before the AF100 was released, as all previous Panasonic Broadcast's cams had the "issue".
But I love the AF100 for what it does, & have intercut it with Alexa, RED, WEISSCAM, & Phantom, footage. And so far no client has had a technical complaint with the results.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Well, hold on a moment, let's be accurate here.
First, as far as a company that listens, no company listens anywhere nearly as good as Panasonic. Let's go back to the original design meetings, where they not only invited me, but had me invite many other DVXUser members in to consult with them as to what they should build. They had cinematographers, videographers, DSLR shooters, EX1 shooters, big-sensor shooters, everyone in there, and they asked us "what do you want?" In general we told them "take an HPX170, lop off the lens, shove a big sensor in there, and we'd be thrilled." And that's exactly what they built.
Now, did we get absolutely everything we asked for? No. We asked them for things like a front-mounted viewfinder and ergonomics like an Aaton Prod S16 camera. We didn't get that. We got a handheld camera more like an HPX170. If we'd been talking about the price bracket of the HPX370, we could have probably talked them into it, but at the price bracket of the HVX200 it wasn't ever gonna happen. We asked for it, we didn't get it.
The focus assist thing was a left-field blindside. I don't recall us asking for it because ... who in their wildest dreams would have imagined that they'd take that away? That was a stunner, and remains my biggest disappointment with the camera, although on a recent location-scout trip I will say that the red focus assist worked nigh unto perfectly for me and I don't think any shots weren't usable because of focus, so -- it's not that big of a deal, but it was disappointing to me that any useful feature would be taken away.
Now, none of this was really relevant in the Japan trip, because by then the prototypes were already built and most features were set in stone. I'm talking about conceptual stuff that happened a year and a half or maybe two years ago, come to think about it.
Are they listening as closely as they did during the original HVX/HPX170 days? Maybe, maybe not; the HPX170 was pretty much a DVXUser-designed wish list handed to them, where they did basically everything we asked them. The AF100, barring the lack of magnified focus assist, is basically everything we asked them in that original design meeting, although some folks did lobby for a "full frame" sensor and a Nikon/Canon mount, and obviously that was never gonna happen. Within the constraints that they gave us (i.e., target price and what segment of the market they wanted to be competing within) they gave us just about everything we asked for. I of course lobbied heavily for an AVC-Intra/P2 version, but at the time that wasn't possible, as the HPX250 wasn't even on the drawing board yet or at least it wasn't mentioned to us.
So -- is Panasonic listening to the end customer? I say heck yes, and better than any other company out there. So what's changed? I think what's changed is the absolute lack of gratitude that pervades much of Internet society and has really changed things in the last few years. Five years ago we were thrilled that a manufacturer would listen to us and design cameras towards what we needed. Today, people DEMAND that a manufacturer kiss their ***, and if they don't kiss it just exactly right and with the right shade of lipstick, people go on a tirade. Not saying you do that Mike, not at all, but I'm saying that it's absolutely a trend of internet discussions nowadays and a reflection of the "entitlement" society. Attention spans have collapsed (people are already losing interest in the Canon C300, and it hasn't even been released yet!!!) and the social graces of appreciation and gratitude are pretty much extinct. So I say that the manufacturer is listening exactly as they always have, and what's changed is the attitude of the user.
Robert Eldon
New member
dustylense
New member
Personally, I think everyone should hold on to the cameras they have as of now and wait until at least mid-summer before making any purchases of any cameras. Shoot with what you have. Bigger and better cameras are coming.
I agree with both sides on this - I have an AF100, which I will keep because the "problems" aren't really that bad in my opinion - I've complained for a year about the lack of a decent zoom, and I don't like the teeny cards or the codec either - but because I still like Panasonic in general, I bought and HPX250 to "augment" my 100. I've intercut them fine - but then I've also been able to intercut with my old HVX200 as well - bottom line is, most people out there really can't tell the difference between Kodak 35mm and Beta-cam let alone AVCHD and AVC-I.
Barry's right about the internet hatchets and the not-so-well-intentioned pundits.. However, if grousing about the need for improvement gets results, it's worth all the vitriolic commentary. That's why I'm happy to see some grousing about the lens on the 250 as well - these things won't get better if we just accept them as they come off the shelf.
Barry's right about the internet hatchets and the not-so-well-intentioned pundits.. However, if grousing about the need for improvement gets results, it's worth all the vitriolic commentary. That's why I'm happy to see some grousing about the lens on the 250 as well - these things won't get better if we just accept them as they come off the shelf.
Thanks for the clarification Barry. I was not aware there was a focus group that Panasonic brought DVXusers into, so I stand corrected. Wish I could have been there. It would have been really cool. And it's nice to know that Panasonic is in fact listening.
However, it does bother me that these manufacturers (not just Panasonic) keep releasing cameras with these old inconvenient and uncomfortable designs. EVF at the back on an interchangeable lens camera? Do they not realize how much equipment is going to be added to the front of the camera? Lens (sometimes big and heavy lenses), follow focus, matte box, etc.. The camera becomes so front heavy that when you use any shoulder mount system that will work for it in a truly comfortable way to get the weight off your arms, the EVF is unusable because of it's placement on the camera. I'd rather they not have included an EVF at all and either lower the price and save me some money or put other features in or enhance existing features. It's numerous things like that and the missing zoom to focus that also make me not want to buy another Panasonic, Sony, Canon, or JVC product. Even Canon, who used to have the XL1 with the EVF up front, now releases a more expensive camera (C300) with the EVF in the back. It just doesn't make any sense. It's like none of the manufacturers understand how cameras are actually being used these days, or they just don't care.
And I'm not saying Red is perfect, and I don't want to make this a Red this, Red that, or Red vs everyone else argument, but Red kinda seems to get it. Yes, their cameras and accessories are expensive and you need to spend a lot of money for a fully usable camera, but Red does understand how filmmakers are using cameras. I wish the other manufacturers did as well.
However, it does bother me that these manufacturers (not just Panasonic) keep releasing cameras with these old inconvenient and uncomfortable designs. EVF at the back on an interchangeable lens camera? Do they not realize how much equipment is going to be added to the front of the camera? Lens (sometimes big and heavy lenses), follow focus, matte box, etc.. The camera becomes so front heavy that when you use any shoulder mount system that will work for it in a truly comfortable way to get the weight off your arms, the EVF is unusable because of it's placement on the camera. I'd rather they not have included an EVF at all and either lower the price and save me some money or put other features in or enhance existing features. It's numerous things like that and the missing zoom to focus that also make me not want to buy another Panasonic, Sony, Canon, or JVC product. Even Canon, who used to have the XL1 with the EVF up front, now releases a more expensive camera (C300) with the EVF in the back. It just doesn't make any sense. It's like none of the manufacturers understand how cameras are actually being used these days, or they just don't care.
And I'm not saying Red is perfect, and I don't want to make this a Red this, Red that, or Red vs everyone else argument, but Red kinda seems to get it. Yes, their cameras and accessories are expensive and you need to spend a lot of money for a fully usable camera, but Red does understand how filmmakers are using cameras. I wish the other manufacturers did as well.
David W. Jones
Well-known member
Fuel to the fire... I have stopped shooting with my AF100!
Why?
Because I'm sitting here recovering from surgery and can't shoot!
Sometimes these threads get a little silly, no?
Why?
Because I'm sitting here recovering from surgery and can't shoot!
Sometimes these threads get a little silly, no?
We're having a discussion about cameras and everyone is getting along. Why do people keep saying it's silly or gone too far. If you're not interested in the discussion go look at another thread or go somewhere else.
PS - Hope you recover well.