VFR mode on the AF101 may have cost me my biggest client today!

There is no risk of losing a shoot because an optional ISO user definedfunction on the wheel. That is not the case with the shutter function which is the stock function of the wheel.
Those who use this camera to make a living, as do I, and do so at times when we must use the 14-140 in rapidly changing dynamic conditions are well acquainted with the juggling act that goes on to dance through the menu trying to re-designate a gain detent with a better ISO setting while your shot walks away. If we had a faster zoom lens, perhaps I wouldn't need to get to the iso so quickly. Having the ability to dial it in would be much more useful than the shutter, and far less dangerous. Indeed, there is no greater danger with ISO on the wheel than there is with it on the three position switch. I hope it is an option that can be made available.
 
There is no risk of losing a shoot because an optional ISO user definedfunction on the wheel.
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The OPs operator managed to do so without the added function of ISO control!

A small point: The button that needs to be programmed to accept ISO on the DIAL would be the one above ...called 'DIAL SELECT'

In turn ..the Dial wheel would need to be programmed to set ISO.

So you now would have a toggled button push then a scroll thru the wheel to set an exposure via ISO. ( ie a few pushes instead of a flick of a switch).
Not withstanding that it is also recommended to set a B/Bal when changing ISO or any of the functions on the wheel...I am not understanding how the shot is still not going to "walk away" from you. It hasnt seemed to on all your award winning stuff so far. (Very nice BTW.

I am saying the switch settings can give you at least 21 stops range already and instantly accessible. Simply plan what you have to shoot for the situation you are approaching. Anyone with experience (such as yours) would make that a doddle.

Risk: So in the case of the original post...what is your opinion about how this situation occured?

I believe the cam operator was juggling the multi functions on the wheel and inadvertently clicked in VFR. The rest was history...

Note ...this can still happen. The firmware only puts a line thru the record Icon.

That is not the case with the shutter function which is the stock function of the wheel.
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Thats not exactly true....it is Shutter and Frame Rate and has 4+ toggled functions already not excluding VFR on /off

EDIT: I have started to think that those strongly advocating using the ISO adjustment for exposure control is mostly to do with those using lenses that have no aperture rings or slow lenses with variable aperture across the focal range. ie. still camera lenses.

This camera should have automatic ISO / gain control me thinks. ( only 1/2 joking but many Panny still cameras do.)
 
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Shooter said:
EDIT: I have started to think that those strongly advocating using the ISO adjustment for exposure control is mostly to do with those using lenses that have no aperture rings or slow lenses with variable aperture across the focal range. ie. still camera lenses.
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You're right.

I was shooting the Panasonic 7-14mm. While I think the lens is amazing and beautiful I hate Hate HATE infinite spinning focus and aperture rings (aside from it being a slow lens). You can't tell where you are, when you spin them you have to watch the EVF and when it adjusts there seems to be a lag. These kind of electronic lenses are just NOT fun to shoot with IMHO. (Now the Voightlander is heaven! Give me manual, all manual, all the way!)
 
Thanx for confirming that Steve.

It is an object lesson to all and you are probably aware from my rants and raves...that I suggest cine / manual style lenses for use on this great little camera ..for reasons such as this.

Some are prepared to "adapt" to a brave new world of shooting with stills lenses ( because they can)..and others will get the "experience..just after they need it".

I wont have an electronic lens in my repertoire for any reason. To me ..they are seriously compromised engineering and practiclly for motion picture work...and it is unlikely ..any of them will become classic optical designs that will pass the test of time. Such as Zeiss Contax, AI/S Nikkors etc..
 
I have to agree with Shooter and Steve. I've been singing the praises of the Oly 12-60 but you know, the more I shoot it the more I think it's a pain in the neck, for the same reasons Steve hates the 7-14 and Shooter says he'll never have an electronic lens in his bag.

I don't need any more 'wheel' functions or knobs or switches for ISO or any other variables.
(Thanks for checking, Jan)

I always set my 3-step gain switch at 200-320-400 or 200-400-800 or 320-640-1250 depending of where I am and what I'm shooting.

What I need are more prime lenses. I'm re-learning the pleasure of returning to tilts and pans with no more zooms and letting the action happen within the frame and the value of follow focus.

I'm finding pleasure in shooting a 24, 50 or 85mm Nikon lens and setting a real f/stop on a ring.

If I need a run and gun camera, I'll pull the '200 of the shelf and shoot it.

We've all learned a valuable lesson from CC's experience but I do like this AF100 as is.

Regards,
Scott
 
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I'm finding pleasure in shooting a 24, 50 or 85mm Nikon lens and setting a real f/stop on a ring.
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Welcome aboard Scott.

If you have the chance and have not already done so... get your Nikkors aperture ring de-clicked. The pleasure increases significantly.

While I was at it..I had all the focus gears cleaned and regreased.

I really love using them. They have unique and superb "character" and function very well.

Guys..dont disregard the "zooms" (variable primes) but be aware...they are hard to find the right ones for what we do.
 
CraftyClown said:
The problem is, is it's all piece to camera work, with about 150 separate takes, so voiceover is out of the question.

I can't get through to my client right now as they are in a meeting, but I will offer to do the job again for free for them. If they will let me!

I'm just shocked at how easy it was to completely screw everything up without realising it.

I'm so depressed right now!
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I am not criticizing your way of working but I "ALWAYS" do a rec test in every situation before recording for real. Your sound man and your camera operator should have played back one test shot to make sure that everything was fine before recording for real. I bet they will not do the same again... It is a matter of experience and having had problems in the past... That has happened to me with other details but only happened once. Your crew should be responsible for what they do to your shoot and your business....not your camera.
I am sorry that happened that way but I have never seen a client not understanding a situation like that except if you put it as a beginners mistake...tell him you had a camera problem that your are ready to solve at no cost to him. He will accept it as long as the shoot was not a once in a lifetime moment.

Good luck

P.S. - How could the crew only check the footage after 150 takes???
 
Hywel said:
I think that might be a no-go. The problem is that the way Panasonic cameras do the slow-mo breaks the time relationship between the audio and the video, because it changes the speed at which the video will be played back. So the audio wouldn't match in duration and the audio would finish in half the time of the video. Or if they changed the speed of the audio, it wouldn't match in pitch. And either of those things might be a complete no-go technically to manage to record in the formats available. Pitch shifting in camera is probably a no-go too as even in a proper audio package getting a factor of two slowdown and an octave pitch shift usually gives very echo-y sounding processed sound.

So I think the answer may be "insanely complicated and no obvious right way to do it" which is why they don't record audio in VFR. I'm used to using a separate sound recorder for VFR anyway. I always ran my two HVX200's with one off-speed recording the "proper" footage, and one at regular speed as a master wide shot with audio, so I could then choose to use the audio if I wanted it, and process it in whatever way seemed most useful in post. For instant things (a thrown punch, whip crack etc) one usually wants the real-speed sound but sliced up so the whip crack happens at the right time. For action taking place over slower timescales one usually wants slowed, pitch shifted sound- but maybe not the "50%/one octave" shift that naive physics says should be "correct" as it doesn't always feel right when you come to do it.

Actually for any shoot using VFR I'm planning on having a separate sound recorder still (probably an HVX on master wide still) so it isn't a big deal.

The big deal is the bars wrongly appearing so you don't spot VFR is on when you don't expect it to be, and that's what Panasonic really should fix properly in a future firmware update, even if they leave the audio pass-through to HDMI intact.

Cheers, Hywel.
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How do film cameras record audio in variframe mode? I don´t think they do... Also I wouldn´t need to have sync sound when I shoot slo mo... I know I am doing slo mo before hand so I count the sound out...
 
Film cameras don't record audio at all (at least they haven't for over 40 years, and then it was only news cameras). Audio is recorded double system, thus clappers.

However, I am one of those who is prone to "little" mistakes when I'm working fast (and I'm always working fast) so I do worry that eventually I am going forget to glance at the icon in the finder and, as a result, make this embarrassing one myself. I wish there was a way to turn off the VUs. I know it's been mentioned before, just reiterating.
 
Mac said:
Film cameras don't record audio at all (at least they haven't for over 40 years, and then it was only news cameras). Audio is recorded double system, thus clappers.

However, I am one of those who is prone to "little" mistakes when I'm working fast (and I'm always working fast) so I do worry that eventually I am going forget to glance at the icon in the finder and, as a result, make this embarrassing one myself. I wish there was a way to turn off the VUs. I know it's been mentioned before, just reiterating.
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of course I was being ironic film cameras don´t record sound...what I meant was that it is not a camera flaw it is a workflow in variframe that it works like as if it was a filmcam....but you can always upgrade the firmware to the 1.1.15 which kills the audio meters in VFR
 
Variable ISOs, if they can be, should be set to the wheel. It should be as easy to set your ISO as it is on the Alexa. There is no argument (aside from sheer stubborness) for keeping variable ISO off the wheel. If Panasonic ever intended to treat this as a "video camera", the ISO monicker and START/STOP and so on wouldn't be on there. This camera is a hybrid between what film cameras were, what DSLRs are and aren't and what video cameras always should have been. If you don't want the variable ISOs on the wheel, just don't use it that way. When they moved to ISO mentality (use the stock that makes sense for your conditions) from gain (never use it, unless you absolutely have to), the gain switch should have gone with it.

As I've suggested before, I think the purists and everyone else can all have it their way...

AF100(b)...

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Erik Olson said:
If Panasonic ever intended to treat this as a "video camera", the ISO monicker and START/STOP and so on wouldn't be on there.
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It has two modes, "FILM CAM" and "VIDEO CAM". In Video Cam mode, it uses gain in terms of dB, just like any other video camera. When you put the switch to "Film Cam", the naming of that same function becomes "ISO".

the gain switch should have gone with it.
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It may be time for the very concept of a gain switch to go away, and be replaced by a "volume knob" type of thing, that allows you to dial up the gain to exactly whatever level you want at any time.
 
Erik Olson said:
Variable ISOs, if they can be, should be set to the wheel. It should be as easy to set your ISO as it is on the Alexa. There is no argument (aside from sheer stubborness) for keeping variable ISO off the wheel. If Panasonic ever intended to treat this as a "video camera", the ISO monicker and START/STOP and so on wouldn't be on there. This camera is a hybrid between what film cameras were, what DSLRs are and aren't and what video cameras always should have been. If you don't want the variable ISOs on the wheel, just don't use it that way. When they moved to ISO mentality (use the stock that makes sense for your conditions) from gain (never use it, unless you absolutely have to), the gain switch should have gone with it.

As I've suggested before, I think the purists and everyone else can all have it their way...

AF100(b)...
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Well said Erik.
 
kikojiu said:
I am not criticizing your way of working but I "ALWAYS" do a rec test in every situation before recording for real. Your sound man and your camera operator should have played back one test shot to make sure that everything was fine before recording for real. I bet they will not do the same again... It is a matter of experience and having had problems in the past... That has happened to me with other details but only happened once. Your crew should be responsible for what they do to your shoot and your business....not your camera.
I am sorry that happened that way but I have never seen a client not understanding a situation like that except if you put it as a beginners mistake...tell him you had a camera problem that your are ready to solve at no cost to him. He will accept it as long as the shoot was not a once in a lifetime moment.

Good luck

P.S. - How could the crew only check the footage after 150 takes???
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In defence of my cameraman and soundman, the problem occurred after we stopped for lunch. They did a playback test before shooting began and we off-loaded all the rushes from the morning and took a quick look at them while we took a break. Obviously at this stage, everything was fine and we were happy with our workflow as everything looked and sounded good. My cameraman had been excited to work with the 101 and decided to take a peek through the menus. He went into the VFR mode but when he came out he didn't realise it was still set, thinking that as it still said 25p, that must be fine. He had also previously set VFR to off in the scene file and thought that this would stick as a master setting. The fact he could see audio bars in the display and the sound man could hear a feed, pretty much sealed our fate for the rest of the day.

I've worked with both the cameraman and soundman many times over the years and they've always been the consummate processionals. I felt more sorry for them after this, than I did for myself as they were both mortified that they might allow something like this to happen. I can't be too annoyed as this was such a terrifyingly easy mistake to make. I'm glad for the firmware update, but surprised the audio bars are still displayed.

The one good thing that will come out of this balls up for me, is a stark reminder of the need to, check, check and double check everything on a shoot.

I'm glad this post has had plenty of interest and I hope it prevents others from making the same mistake.

Rich
 
kikojiu: It's not a "beginners mistake". As I've said several times, I fully expect to make this mistake myself even though I am aware of it - and I've been shooting documentaries in 16, 35, super16 and everything from B&W reel-to-reel VHS to HDCAM. It is adding a new factor to a check list that many like me haven't worried about before. I will fret about it, check it before, during and after shoots.. but eventually I will miss it, because it is STUPID!

And your testing and playback advice tells me that you've never actually shot a long schedule, day after day, week after week with unexpected things happening constantly, moving from place to place without an AC, trying to keep up with people who have no intention of slowing down so you can do a little playback test. The real world isn't in a studio.
 
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I forgot to mention above that I'm happy to hear that you've found a way to reshoot this material. Taking responsibility unabashedly for a mistake like this will pay off in the future - as much as it hurts today. It's ironic that double-system recording makes more sense than ever - even as we quickly (and finally) seem to be abandoning film acquisition.
 
Shooter said:
Ah ha. This is what I dont get.
Why are you wide open (.."of course"). I have heard others say that and I hear them say they want to fine tune the ISO so they stay there (or any) aperture constantly.

What is the compelling reason to shoot at the same aperture? I guess the answer that will come back is "shallow DOF"
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I'm wide open all the time when shooting verite indoors because the 14-140 is so slow, and there's no suitable alternative for a stabilized zoom lens in the focal length range I want. The ISO wheel would significantly mitigate the shortcomings of using this camera/lens package for verite.

This is a production camera and not a run and gun / event camera as often pointed out here.
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I guess this isn't the type of work you do- that's great. But why get so involved in trying to undermine a function request that would clearly be welcomed by people who use the camera differently?
 
Sorry...I guess it took me a while to realise that others were using very slow still camera lenses without aperture rings and variable aperture thru the range.

Now I know how you work...I am certainly keen to see what you do achieve if you ever post up some of your cinema verite work shot this way on this camera.
 
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