With the availability of affordable gear one path for filmmakers might be working with a theatre company. Stories and actors are the foundation of narrative films. Maybe working with actors and writing should be the top advice for newbie filmmakers instead of default gear advice (which obviously has a place). Some of the forum discussions of late have many working professionals turning away from expensive gear toward good enough and easier to use cams like the xt3 or sonys. Seeing how well batutta did on the sound for his feature with a inexpensive mic( I picked up a used one for 15$ ( just showing knowledge and planning can get you good results w cheap gear).
Filmakers should consider joining theatre company
- Thread starter lambert
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Batutta
New member
For sure having some foundational training in writing and directing is a better place to start for a filmmaker, and theater can provide that. I got it at college and spent most of my early years focused on writing. I backed into the technical aspects of filmmaking out of necessity. It seems to me this forum is split between two camps, aspiring filmmakers trying to make their first films, and working professionals. The gear needs of those two groups are pretty different. The aspiring filmmakers generally take an attitude of good enough (or as good as I can afford right now), and generally the gear is used intermittently and only needs to last one or two projects. A working professional needs something that's going to last, and is going to work every time, day in, day out and produces quality that doesn't need to be extensively massaged in post. Working for a client is different than working for yourself and I don't fault the gearheads on this forum for always chasing better and better, as anything that needs to be fixed later comes at a cost to the client, and that means you might not get the job next time.
Agree Batutta, everything you're saying makes sense. Also many other ways to reach ones filmmaking goals. Some advantages of working with a theatre company 1. Around folks who are going out of their way to work at the craft. Same thought as not casting someone on micro budget level who can't be bothered to show up for an audition or send a tape. 2. They deal with promotion and getting buts in the seats. Saw a nice local feature with a 22 year old. He had the support of the theatre department and a family members theatre company. It's well on its way to making back its modest budget from screening around the region. 3. Very easy to pull a table read together. One of the things that is overlooked by many. 4. A chance to learn some minimum skills in hair makeup costumes. Some differences but basically the same skills. 5.access to Props, costumes, or at least getting to know someone that can find anything for low or no cost. Every theatre company has this person.
100% agreed with the positives for filmmakers of joining a theater company. One of benefit I'd add to the list - Theater is F%$#!ng AWESOME.
I've been in this theater company for many years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAByrinth_Theater_Company
A quick look at the list of members shows more than a few very talented filmmakers began in theater. In past years, no matter what a member was working on - either an enormous blockbuster or a tiny, micro-budget indie, we'd get together every summer and go away to a small college and develop new plays. The wondrous, spontaneous stuff that happened in those development sessions are my favorite memories of anything I've experienced in this industry.
An example of the positive peer pressure of a theater company - I'd never written anything. On a whim, I did a group writing exercise with some friends at one of these summer workshops. Turns out the writing wasn't half bad. An established playwright read it and said, "I have good news and bad news. The good news is, you're a writer. The bad news is, you're a writer." The artistic director put me on a deadline to have my play - that I'd not written - read publicly the next summer. An incredible and terrifying gift. I delivered the play on deadline and have never stopped writing. I would not make my living as a screenwriter without my theater company experience.
Couldn't imagine how hard it would be to grind out a writer/filmmaker's life without theater. Theater is refuge.
I've been in this theater company for many years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAByrinth_Theater_Company
A quick look at the list of members shows more than a few very talented filmmakers began in theater. In past years, no matter what a member was working on - either an enormous blockbuster or a tiny, micro-budget indie, we'd get together every summer and go away to a small college and develop new plays. The wondrous, spontaneous stuff that happened in those development sessions are my favorite memories of anything I've experienced in this industry.
An example of the positive peer pressure of a theater company - I'd never written anything. On a whim, I did a group writing exercise with some friends at one of these summer workshops. Turns out the writing wasn't half bad. An established playwright read it and said, "I have good news and bad news. The good news is, you're a writer. The bad news is, you're a writer." The artistic director put me on a deadline to have my play - that I'd not written - read publicly the next summer. An incredible and terrifying gift. I delivered the play on deadline and have never stopped writing. I would not make my living as a screenwriter without my theater company experience.
Couldn't imagine how hard it would be to grind out a writer/filmmaker's life without theater. Theater is refuge.
Right on Kohl! Another positive, many colleges and theater companies for many of their productions do color blind casting which gives great actors a chance to shine in roles that may not have been considered for if going strictly by writers intentions . Leading filmmakers later on tend to think outside the box in casting their films if possible. By being in a theatre group it got me on to medium and big budget films directly from the theatre company I was involved with. I don't consider myself an actor but I got several nicely paid roles without auditioning because a casting director was in our company and needed someone last minute and thought of me. It's great to work with generous of spirit artists.
alaskacameradude
New member
Unfortunately, it doesn't always work. I had the same idea about 10 years ago and attempted to go to
a local theatre as I thought it would be good to network with actors and others and maybe collaborate
on some sort of short film. Alas, I was told they were all union actors and the point of contact that I
was talking to refused to even let me pass on my contact info to see if any of them were interested.
It was pretty much a non starter, I was told non of them were allowed to do things like that.
a local theatre as I thought it would be good to network with actors and others and maybe collaborate
on some sort of short film. Alas, I was told they were all union actors and the point of contact that I
was talking to refused to even let me pass on my contact info to see if any of them were interested.
It was pretty much a non starter, I was told non of them were allowed to do things like that.
Many well established theatre companies would love help evaluating new submissions. Chicago has 100s of storefront theatres many doing great work without much reward, many non union and most would love some help. It probably will take some work to find the right fit wherever one is located and the older one gets the less time one has.
hscully
New member
I participated in a Master Class at the LAB some years ago as an actor. The culture that encourages artists the way Kohl described it is tremendous. Maybe it is because theater companies are anchored to a place, or that films are individual projects whose organization doesn’t persist beyond the life of that project but the sense of community in a theater company doesn’t really have an analog in filmmaking. I think the goals are different. Theater companies are good with a successful run. Filmmakers seem to be interested primarily in trading up into some promise of “industry” interest. You don’t have reperatory film making.
Try another theater then - there are more than just that one out there.
alaskacameradude
New member
I'm not exactly living in LA, NY or Atlanta here if you know what I mean
.A bit limited by my location as far as 'just trying another theater.'
I understand the sentiment though.
hscully
New member
Something I think needs to be addressed is that an association with a theater company may be encouraging and great in itself but I don’t think that it automatically means good things for your film. The difference between a good screenplay and a good play are enormous. The role of dialog in a play is not the same as in a movie. They are not the same thing. Additionally, and I’m an actor so I have experience here, the skill set for acting on stage and acting on set are very different. Many actors do both but will, by necessity, focus on one at a time.
I agree nothing is guaranteed by any associations. I think the skills needed from film to stage aren't necessarily different. The size of the space plays a factor, a 30 seat venue requires a different approach than the old Vic. Most actors work very hard at the skills needdd for both. Much like playwrights moving between different mediums. The idea that a writer can't successfully move from stage to tv to film and back is exaggerated. That may have been true years ago but not a given today. Many writers aren't able to transition but many are. If they can understand that film is a visual medium first and dialogue while very important serves a different purpose, and many eliminated from the scene is most appropriate fir the story. I agree it's rare to see a theatre company doing consistent film projects together, at least in America.
I think it’s Judith Weston who has a book called “Directing Actors”, and in it she says something to the effect of how you shouldn’t have to be hammier on stage than you would for film. Perhaps I read or understood it wrong but I’ve never completely agreed. With film/TV/whatever the camera can be very tight allowing you to see the slightest twitch of an eye. You don’t get that watching a stage play (maybe first few rows), and of course additionally your subtly whispered lines that are dramatic in film will be inaudible to the audience, so some projection is required. This all very “duh” but I always found it weird that she wrote that.
What a drag. I know I'm only hearing your side of the story - and I believe you - but the response from the theater's point of contact makes no sense. It makes even less than no sense if you are in a more remote area where there is far less opportunity for actors to get in front of a camera. In the first place, AEA (theater union) has nothing to do with on-camera work. That's SAGAFTRA. I'm in several unions (acting, screenwriting, theater) and I still do small stuff on the regular. There are low-budget film exemptions that are straightforward to procure. That response represents a self-defeating, scarcity mentality and it's just weird. The only reason I can think of is that the theater doesn't want to share their limited talent pool. If I were an actor in that theater and I found out they turned you away - an established guy who knows what he's doing behind a camera - I'd leave that theater.
The best solution to that problem, in my opinion, is that if a person wants to get involved with a theater company - start one. Get a few friends together - read a play - rehearse a little bit - invite some more friends to hear it read - boom - theater company.
That is very cool you participated in a Master Class. We've worked with the same people then. And if it was some years ago, it was probably during the halcyon days when the big dogs of LAB were still running. The whole intent of those classes is to give participants a taste of being a part of a theater company, create some new work, fell the electrifying dynamo that drives it all. Hopefully, they go off and start their own thing and get hustling down the road to world domination. Hope it was an awesome experience.
And I totally hear you about repertory film companies. They are uncommon and difficult to sustain. My experience as an actor and writer in the film industry is primarily as a mercenary, a gun for hire, as it were. Occasional fixer of broken plots. So it goes.
hscully
New member
It was when John Gould Rubin was Artistic Director - in the aughts. It got me writing and producing my own work. The ethic of making it happen yourself with your peers has been sustaining to me and it arose around the LAB and The Atlantic Theater company and associations with Partial Comfort. It’s a different way of living for an artist and something I would wish for everyone. Kinda changes everything. There’s less of that ethic in film but there’s enough of us. I continue to write and produce my own work and work with others on DIY projects as well as do the regular dance as an actor in NY.
Rubin is the man. Now runs 'The Private Theater'. The aughts were the days. Very good to hear it was transformative. My interactions with LAB have been similarly affecting as well.
Checked out your page - good work man. Dig the Mackendrick reference.
I truly regret not having the foresight to study at CalArts. Fortunately he left behind a fine manual for those inclined to do a deep dive. His teaching draws heavily from theater. Often references an old tome by William Archer - Playmaking. Great book: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/10865
hscully
New member
Rubin is the man. Now runs 'The Private Theater'. The aughts were the days. Very good to hear it was transformative. My interactions with LAB have been similarly affecting as well.
Checked out your page - good work man. Dig the Mackendrick reference.
Thanks, Man. You got the Mackendrick quote - first time. I’ve got his book out again working on another script. Thanks for the Archer reference. I’ll definitely check that out. You’re into such good stuff. Loved your reel. Maggie Flanigan huh? That’s the real deal there. One teacher I really loved that week at the LAB was Scott Hudson. I learned something from him that will always stay with me. That was a great time.
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Thanks for the kind words. And yeah man, Maggie... though she's not widely known in the mainstream of pop culture, her profound influence on American theater - to say nothing of the Academy Awards - is very clear for anyone who knows what to look for. There's a reason the best of the best go to learn from her. An Irish Jedi.
Good chatting with you and thanks to the OP for starting this thread - Inspired me to reinvigorate my relationship with theater. Sincerely, wish you well with your script.