Vegas, other NLE support for new cam?

E

eclaire

Active member
(Caveat: Of course this is way premature, but then that's the whole point of this new forum, right . . . to share excitement about the "what ifs" and "I wonders" and generally speculate about a camera which we are at best months away from even seeing? ;D)

I've read elsewhere on the forum that Avid and Apple support editing in the DVCPRO-HD format. But I fell in love with Vegas last year (moving from Premiere) just before Sony purchased it from Sonic Foundry. I am committed to the PC platform and really, REALLY don't want to change NLEs. I can't imagine a comparably priced editor with more power or that features a more intuitive, efficient, friendly interface, better use of shortcuts, or better stability than Vegas.

So my initial excitement in reading about the new Panasonic cam was dampened a bit when I realized that Vegas is now the property of Sony -- who I suspect would not want to facilitate a competing HD product and format unless and until it absolutely, positively had to.

Am I correct in assuming that Vegas is not likely to support DVCPRO-HD editing for quite some time -- if ever? If not, what specific NLEs support it now or are likely to in the immediate future?
 
Re: Vegas, other NLE support for new cam?

Premiere Pro was a nice step forward in the NLE department. I've worked with it a little bit, and its a big step forward from what it used to be.

I think Adobe's doing good things with it.

Dillon
 
Re: Vegas, other NLE support for new cam?

I don't know whether Vegas will support the new format or not.  If they don't, frankly they'd be behaving stupidly.  Vegas is one of the most open, format-compatible editors available, you can input and output practically anything, so if they decide for political reasons to exclude these particular editing formats (something the competing products already support natively) then that'd be a bad move.  I don't believe they'll do that.

However, have your voice be heard -- register a request that they support the format here:
http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/support/productsuggestion.asp
 
Re: Vegas, other NLE support for new cam?

Took your advice, Barry, and put in my vote for DVCPRO-HD support. Hope it helps as I would hate to have to make a choice in a year between a great new camera and my favored NLE.
 
Re: Vegas, other NLE support for new cam?

Does premiere pro already handle DVCPRO-HD? If so where have I been?
 
Re: Vegas, other NLE support for new cam?

I would hate to have to make a choice in a year between a great new camera and my favored NLE.
Click to expand...

I would drop my NLE like a bad habit for DVCPRO-HD. :D
 
Re: Vegas, other NLE support for new cam?

[quote author=goober542 link=board=HDV;num=1108353320;start=0#4 date=02/14/05 at 15:37:42]Does premiere pro already handle DVCPRO-HD?  If so where have I been?[/quote]

no

I also agree that no NLE is going to be the limiting factor of my success. The NLE is a tool just like the camera, however which NLE you use is not nearly as important as which camera you use IMO. if Vegas doesn't support DVCpro, I guess I will be saying hello to AVID. However, I really doubt that sony would diss us panasonic users after all they have done. Look at the 24p support, one of the first of it's kind, however this was when it was liscenced under Sonic foundry, so you never know. If Panasonic is killing Z1 sales, sony may not want to promote even more users of Panasonics by supporting DVCpro. A very poor marketing decision if it does happen, but one never knows.
 
Re: Vegas, other NLE support for new cam?

This is what Jan Crittenden wrote me back in August 04 regarding my question if Premiere pro 1.5 support DVCPRO 50.
As far as I know not much have been changed...



Johnnie, Adobe Premiere does not support DV50 at this time because Windows has to support it first. That is coming, but it has been a long time in coming. AFAIK I heard 4th quarter this year for Windows. Then the PC guys can start their development.

Hope that helps,

Jan

--------------------
Product Line Business Manager
DVCPRO50/25, DVX100A
One Panasonic Way, 2E-7
Secaucus, NJ 07094



The answer is that as an uncompressed format, virtually any NLE editor will support the DVCPRO50, that is because as uncompressed it is video. My answer was relative to the DV50 over firewire, which at this point in time, no PC based system can support because Windows does not support the DV50 codec. That is supposed to change by 4th quarter of this year. So until then it is a matter of working in uncompressed. Now whether the Premier will extract the 24P from an uncompressed stream, I think that is a question for Adobe.

Hope that clarifies,

Jan

--------------------
Product Line Business Manager
DVCPRO50/25, DVX100A
One Panasonic Way, 2E-7
Secaucus, NJ 07094
 
Re: Vegas, other NLE support for new cam?

I also agree that no NLE is going to be the limiting factor of my success. The NLE is a tool just like the camera, however which NLE you use is not nearly as important as which camera you use IMO.
Click to expand...

It's not that I'm drawing the line at Vegas, but if I had to abandon such a fine NLE and invest another $800 - $1,600 on a competing product (one that would do DVCPRO-HD), those considerations would definitely factor in when/how I decide to enter HD production . . . along with things like HD format, camera cost, media type and media cost, CCD size, lens quality, etc. I would agree that an NLE is largely transparent in the finaly analysis and therefore the choice of camera would have a much greater impact on the look of the final product. But I can also tell you that I spend a HELL of lot more time editing than I do shooting, and so choice of/familiarity with the NLE is still an important consideration in overall workflow and comfort level. JMO.
 
Re: Vegas, other NLE support for new cam?

Why does Vegas support quicktime?  Why does windows support quicktime for that matter?  The base of Vegas users who won't have this camera for sometime is HUGE!...they don't need to support it.....but they will because it is good for business and will allow Vegas users to produce content that reflects positively on Vegas.  If EA and Microsoft can come to usage agreements, this is small change by that standard. As a Vegas user and fan, I'd be shocked if Sony doesn't keep Vegas current with all upcoming formats....it just doesn't go with their past behavior.
 
Re: Vegas, other NLE support for new cam?

I'm right there with you -- I really don't want to spend the money, and the learning time, on a new NLE. I like -- no, make that *love* -- Vegas, it can do everything I need, and I already know how to use it.

If they add DVCPRO50 and DVCPRO-HD support, it will be a beautiful thing.

If they don't, I think it will be seen as a political (and stupid) move. If Avid and Apple are already supporting it, Sony/Vegas really won't have any excuse as to why they aren't. I wouldn't expect to see them release a DVCPRO-HD update until either a) Vegas 6.0 is announced, or b) the Panasonic camera hits the market. But I really hope they do announce support for it soon!
 
Re: Vegas, other NLE support for new cam?

I also agree that no NLE should limit me. If I can get my hands on DVCPro50, and better yet DVCProHD, then here comes my new NLE... Well, that is my emotional side speaking... my side that controls finances tries to say otherwise.

In all honesty, this is what I think; Sony Vegas, formerly owned by Sonic Foundry is a division onto itself, an although they report to the big Sony Corporation, I believe they do not involve them on every aspect of new feature release. As a matter of fact, not all Sony divisions communicate between themselves, so this may actually work to Vegas user’s advantage. So it is my humble opinion that they will release support for DVCPro50 and 100. As to when they can do it is another matter. It is far more likely that the release may be delayed for "political" reasons, but support will be available for Vegas eventually.

Personal comment on Vegas:
On the matter of usage, I've tried Vegas trial version on many occasions, and I have a real hard time getting used to it. I don't know it's because I'm change adverse, or if it's because I just don't jive with the workflow, or simply, I just cannot stand Vegas as not being as fast as my Premiere Pro 1.5 & Matrox RTX100 combo for DV?

Any way, I look forward to the announcement at NAB2005.

Personal comment on NLEs and computers in general:
I don’t know if it’s because I’m in my mid-life crisis, but I feel like change. Some men want to change they wifes, cars, or their life in general. I for one am quite happy with my life in general, I love my wife, and I have no interest in cars other then it’s a means to go from point A to B. One thing I am itching to change, something that I spend most of my waking hours on, and that is my computer (or should I say computers). I feel I need a change in philosophy, so I’m actually thinking of switching over to the Mac after 20 years of hard-core PC usage. That urge amplified when I heard of the possibility of actually having in hand an affordable DVCPro50 and DVCProHD camcorder, knowing full well that Final Cut Pro HD natively supports them now.

Fred
 
Re: Vegas, other NLE support for new cam?

Vegas has a SHOT – in the same way FCP had that shot – at becoming THE editing app. Such a limitation would be a political move so short-sighted and stupid as there would be no way I could put any dollars toward continuing to support it. Of all the shortcomings of man, those two things I despise the most.

But I don’t think they’ll be that stupid.
 
Re: Vegas, other NLE support for new cam?

The PC does support it. With Canopus Edius, you can buy the codec pack that supports both DVCPro 50 and DVCProHD. This is used in conjunction with their Edius NX and Edius SP real time editing cards.
 
Re: Vegas, other NLE support for new cam?

..premiere pro does support different uncompressed/compressed HD platforms like - cineform HD or prospect HD or matrox AXIO HD , and can already or is slated to handle 24p pulldown and even handel ALL HD framrates and formats in some of the systems, but they are all either hardware driven or boxed sale solutions that cost a pretty penny. but PPRO does have the archetecthure built in to handle HD. its supposed to hande HDV natively pretty soon.. actually it was supposed to come out a while ago but its taking longer than anyone wnats it too to put it in. im assuing that it will migrate to handeling other HD fomrats native too as other NLES do when the time comes, and the hardware accelerators or boxed solutions will just be above and beyond what the editor can do itself.

heres some links to check out the solutions currently available that i hope will be offered in the editor itself soon. thats usually the way it goes.:

http://www.matrox.com/video/products/axio/multiformat.cfm


http://www.cineform.com/products/ProspectHD.htm
 
Re: Vegas, other NLE support for new cam?

[quote author=Neil R. link=board=HDV;num=1108353320;start=0#14 date=02/15/05 at 08:54:34] but PPRO does have the archetecthure built in to handle HD. its supposed to hande HDV natively pretty soon.. actually it was supposed to come out a while ago but its taking longer than anyone wnats it too to put it in. [/quote]
I swear I saw a link on the Adobe site a few weeks back that was for the PPro update for HDV but it seems to have been removed.

http://www.adobe.com/motion/hd.html
 
Re: Vegas, other NLE support for new cam?

Actually, you can create HD material in PPro right out of the box (just like Vegas).  It's just that you won't get any sort of real-time playback.  I've tried it, and it works... slowly, but it works.  My goal was to create a 3D animated sequence, and output it to a 720P Windows Media form.  You also have no input or output connectivity, and actually, that is the real problem with PPro when you have camera captured video streams... hence the need for HD-SDI cards (which usually comes with some form of driver for the most popular NLEs, including PPro)

But now with HDV, and soon to be accessible DVCProHD using Firewire, who cares about those cards... unless you absolutely need hardware accelaration (as provided by the Matrox Axio, and the Pinnacle Cinewave for Apple).
 
Re: Vegas, other NLE support for new cam?

Flintstone, in the latest update of vegas 5, it now has support for the HDV codec, not just a 720p or 1080i timeline. Vegas has always, for as long as I have been using it, supported variable frame sizes right out of the box.
 
Re: Vegas, other NLE support for new cam?

[quote author=scharky link=board=HDV;num=1108353320;start=15#17 date=02/16/05 at 13:58:02]Flintstone, in the latest update of vegas 5, it now has support for the HDV codec, not just a 720p or 1080i timeline.  Vegas has always, for as long as I have been using it, supported variable frame sizes right out of the box.[/quote]

So is the limtation then being able to capture DVCPRO using Vegas? Can it handle DVCPRO at all now?
 
Re: Vegas, other NLE support for new cam?

[quote author=braw link=board=HDV;num=1108353320;start=15#18 date=02/16/05 at 14:00:10]

So is the limtation then being able to capture DVCPRO using Vegas? Can it handle DVCPRO at all now?
[/quote]

You know, this is a good question. Since Vegas can already support HD resolutions, and if Windows gets native DV50 support 4th quarter or whenever, does Vegas even need to be updated in order to work?
 
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