Other: The Sony ILME-FX30 Owners Club

AmbiSonde

AmbiSonde

Bronze Member
If this is the wrong place for this camera discussion, apologies, maybe someone could move it to the right area.

I joined DVXUser in the hope of finding other FX30 users but it seems a bit quiet. Anyway, I finally got round to upgrading my FS7 and instead of going down the FX6 route like many of my colleagues I decided on the FX30. I'm not going to lie the almost disposable pricing was a factor, at this level I can upgrade every year without noticing if Sony releases an improved model. However, it was the gimbal friendly form factor and the changing nature of client work that really pushed me towards the FX30. To have a camera with such reliable auto focus to chuck on a gimbal is a godsend as the youtube video making aesthetic alters client expectations.

I think the FX30 is the best value camera Sony has released in a long time, probably since the original FS7.

Looking forward to hearing from other owners if there are any.
 
Not much traffic here anymore, but the camera's a hit on YT.

You titled the thread the same way as the FX6 one (besides the model name/#) and it's in the same location so it should be fine.

For the money and features, this camera is one of the best I've ever seen, and the only thing holding it back for some is the smaller sensor (which could be a positive for others).
 
I'm at that middle age where I'm an old-timer now, but I'm also aware of the younger generation's views and practices and I can't say all of them are wrong.

Times have changed and cameras are much more flexible, especially with modern post. There are ways that are recommended on paper to use a piece of hardware but all that matters is the end-result for one's purpose.

Like, if an influencer is overexposing or underexposing CineEI but the results look good and the views keep coming in, who cares - you know what I mean? What the motion picture looks like once it's uploaded is all that matters. Sometimes people do everything by the book and it looks mediocre.
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Back in the day once we all realized sensors were starting to get sharper and nicer like around that 2014-ish "here comes the 4K wave", we loved putting vintage glass on them, especially the Nikkors many of us collected over the years to use as manual cine lenses.

The softer quality of those lenses (lenses keep getting sharper every year) worked well with the sharper, very digital-like chips.
 
I've said this elsewhere, but if Sony came out with the FX30 sensor in an FX6 body I would be very tempted to sell my FX6 for it. I'd love to return to a S35 sensor format. FF is nice for certain things, but the lens selection is still not great.
 
drboffa said:
I've said this elsewhere, but if Sony came out with the FX30 sensor in an FX6 body I would be very tempted to sell my FX6 for it. I'd love to return to a S35 sensor format. FF is nice for certain things, but the lens selection is still not great.
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Yes, that would be tempting. But ultimately I'd rather have the full-frame 8K A1 sensor in the FX6 body and the option to use a S35 crop mode when I wanted to.
 
Doug Jensen said:
Yes, that would be tempting. But ultimately I'd rather have the full-frame 8K A1 sensor in the FX6 body and the option to use a S35 crop mode when I wanted to.
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Okay, yes, as long as we're dreaming that'd be nice :cool:

Although I imagine that would *really* render the FX9 irrelevant, aside from the I/O capabilities. I also imagine it'd be priced at (or over) the FX9 price...
 
I've been tempted to look at the FX3 or FX30 for situations where I can't use the FX6. On my recent trip to India, I was barred from taking in the FX6 to many places as they don't allow "professional video" equipment. 1,000 of people with Phones and Mirrorless cameras shooting footage but a hard NO to my FX6. Weird. Ended up using a DJI Action Cam in these places which was not ideal but was very discrete.

Edit: Even a camcorder would have got a no. It needed to look like a stills camera or a phone to get it in.
 
jmone said:
Edit: Even a camcorder would have got a no. It needed to look like a stills camera or a phone to get it in.
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My A1 has served me well in those situations. The big advantage it has over the FX3 and FX30 is that it has a fantastic OLED viewfinder. Built-in ND would be nice though.

BTW, the FX3 and FX30 aren't cinema cameras even though that's what Sony calls them. They are just mirrorless cameras without a EVF.
 
Yeah it's not just how the Alpha cameras look, like a 'normal' camera, it's the fact that you can monitor with the EVF which is hugely better than using the tiny LCD screen. The only way to even get close with the FX3/30 is to add an external monitor and then you lose stealth mode.

Before getting the a7Siii and the FX6 I was convinced that I wanted a matching pair of cameras. I was wrong. So much better to have two very different cameras with (functionally) the same image. Unfortunately, I don't think we'll get an a7S4 / A2 with internal ND.

Edited to add - I'll take an a7S4 with internal ND and a flip-up / moveable EVF thanks. Will consider Canon if this describes the C70 successor.
 
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AmbiSonde said:
The first day I used the FX30 I thought I had made a big mistake, I was trying to manual focus and failed miserably then I tried the autofocus and discovered it's almost magic. Making the leap to trusting autofocus and understanding it was the biggest culture shock I think I've ever had in over 25 years production. You just have to go with it. I felt dirty but not for long.
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You should have seen the AF vs. MF wars here around 2015-2018. Although Canon had a pretty decent DPAF system since 2013 with the 70D, very few at that time would ever take something like that seriously (I did, I adopted everything very early my entire career). Then around 2016, the 1DX Mark II was announced around the same time as the Sony a6300 - which was Sony's first AI AF camera - and YouTube started to have a different landscape so both were gaining AF traction.

But you still had to fight tooth and nail to convince people to give it a shot, and rightfully so because it took a lot of nerve to risk a job/client/livelihood for a machine. And MANY people messed up their work by trusting AF by either using non-optimal settings in young AF cameras or simply the wrong AF camera (thinking all were created equally).

Fast-forward to now and cameras like the FX30 are stupidly good at it.
 
Yeah - I'm pretty sold on the internal vEND. Shame they haven't (yet) been able to combine it with IBIS as Sony seem determined to not release OSS lens anymore outside the teles
 
jmone said:
Yeah - I'm pretty sold on the internal vEND. Shame they haven't (yet) been able to combine it with IBIS as Sony seem determined to not release OSS lens anymore outside the teles
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It's my perception that in-lens stabilisation is better for video than IBIS. It's more effective at subtracting jitters from dynamic handheld and leaving natural, pleasing movement and you never get artefacts like warping at the edge of the frame. If you're taking stills rather than video, or you want a pseudo-tripod look with very little movement then they are as good as each other.

If you disagree please comment, my experience with IBIS is limited (and only with the a7Siii) so I might well be talking rubbish.
 
AmbiSonde said:
Doug, you have always been well connected with Sony so you might know the answer to this question. In the previous F series cameras only the F65 and F55 had the wide gamut sensors and the F5 down had rec709 sensors, do you know if there is any difference in the FX series sensors gamuts or even what coverage they give? The FX 30 manages fluorescent jackets way better than my FS7 ever did so I wondered if the FX series had wide gamut sensors?
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Sorry, I've never had that conversation with anyone at Sony and I don't know the answer. But I have no doubt that the FX30 sensor does everything better than the FS7. My FS7 has been a great camera for the last 10 years, but it's showing it's age now when compared to the newer cameras.
 
AmbiSonde said:
Camera usage trends are also pointing towards handheld being a thing of the past and gimbals take over so I can see why Sony might be moving away from OSS. The fx3/30 are priced so low that they could be someone's exclusive gimbal cam.
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From where I'm standing it looks more like the gimbal wave has broken and we're heading back in the other direction, might be my wishful thinking though.
 
AmbiSonde said:
I might get some Slog3 vs HLG3 clips/pics together for a comparison at some stage.
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I would very much like to see that because your comments fly in the face of Sony's recommendations and my own experience. Perhaps there is something special about the FX30.
 
AmbiSonde said:
TL;DR I highly recommend HLG3 over Slog3.

Going back to my experiences with the FX30 I was a bit surprised how fragile SLog3 still can be. The FS7 was 10 bit but graded like it was an 8 bit camera, it didn't take much to expose horrendous blocky compression artefacts but I was glad that the FX30 footage faired better but not a much as I hoped.

I discovered a lot of noise in the blue and red channels, one clip of a fishing boat with a flapping blue tarpaulin was absolutely buzzing with noise. I know how to expose CineEI and ETTR but this didn't save me. I also picket up more blocky noise in the red channel of another clip of a red car. This was with just a simple base grade to get to rec709.

Shooting Slog3 and adding any sort of subtractive saturation to the image breaks very quickly. I need to do a proper investigation but it looks like a combination of the sensor noise, compression and the fact Slog3 never really makes the best use of 10 bits especially on low dynamic range scenes, the waveform can be razor thin. One thing read quite a lot on FB Groups is how noisy the FX30 is and I'm pretty sure it's not the FX30 being particularly noisy but Slog3 being too flimsy in 10 bits and with relatively high compression.

I switched to using HLG3 which has about a stop less dynamic range than Slog3 but can be thought of as a more contrasty SLog2 like curve which uses the 10 bit more efficiently. Resolve recognises HLG3 and will colour manage it into rec709 if you set it up to do so so it's just as easy to work with as SLog3 and...

Wow, does HLG3 grade so much better than Slog3! You can really push the image around and add bags of contrast and subtractive sat without the footage disintegrating. Obviously there's a limit, the fx30 footage is a highly compressed and you can't undo the posterisation of compression. If you look deep into HLG3 footage there is a bit of noise but instead of being blocky it's a very filmic grain.

So I highly recommend HLG3 as the go to PP for the FX30. I might get some Slog3 vs HLG3 clips/pics together for a comparison at some stage.

BTW, I'd be interested to hear what others have found with higher end cameras? I'd love the next series of cameras from Sony to support 12 bit then Slog3 would be a bit more bullet proof.
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Are you shooting H264 or H265? In my opinion this makes a big difference. H264 will break much more easily than H265.
 
Teddy_Dem said:
Are you shooting H264 or H265? In my opinion this makes a big difference. H264 will break much more easily than H265.
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H.265 is more compressed than H.264 so the file sizes are smaller, but it isn't a "better" quality codec. If you have some side-by-side examples that prove your claim H.265 is better for grading (assuming all other things are equal) I'd love to see those too. What camera are you basing your analysis on? If H.265 truly makes a "big difference" it should be easy to demonstrate, if you don't mind.

In the meantime, I ain't buying it. In fact, due to the horsepower needed to decompress H.265, I'd say it is a worse codec for post. I won't touch it except for testing purposes.
 
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AmbiSonde said:
If you look deep into HLG3 footage there is a bit of noise but instead of being blocky it's a very filmic grain.
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I wonder (as others have) if this is more a codec/compression issue. With the Fs5 I found that the 10bit HD footage suffered from similar blocky noise in underexposed areas of slog2/3, whereas the 8bit UHD footage did not have this problem. My guess is that this was, in part, due to the 10bit footage being stuffed into the tiny 50mb bittrate for HD footage, compared to the 8bit's 150mb bitrate.

But I'm not a video engineer so I may be off base here.

I'm assuming the FX30, like the a7s3 (and *unlike* the FX6), has about a hundred different codec/bitrate/framerate options? It'd be a PITA but interesting to compare across the various options.
 
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