GH5 How interested are you in a GH6 anymore?

Yeah, that's true...actually this forum taught me how passionate people can be about lighting and grip gear and support gear, etc.

It was always cameras for me and nothing else (as far as this industry). I of course needed some of the other stuff but it was mandatory and purchases were almost never driven by a salivating desire.

I can confidently say 97% of my 70+ cameras purchases were all syndrome-related.

[Where's Mike Krumlauf...he can relate. He has a new camera every 2 weeks on his YouTube, lol. He buys them - used - doesn't rent.]

My ex wife kept me medicated from suffering from GAS. Well at least she tried to. Hated it at the time but considering how much GAS has cost me during the pandemic/divorce maybe it was a good thing. First it was a P4k, then a Canon M6 mk2 and then a Canon R6. I bought hundreds of other items however like random support gear and accessories that I'm sure totaled way more than the camera purchases. Lets just blame it on a mini mid life crisis as well.

Some middle age guys getting divorced buy a convertible. I buy camera gear.
 
You've been thinking about going back to Panasonic lately, the GH6.

You really liked those cameras...they just made sense and felt right.
 
FWIW, CP+ has been canceled. Now, it's online only. Canon, having announced R5C, could hypothetically bring out an entry level full frame model to replace RP. But the race is for an "affordable", yet upscale, 8K product. Lower priced pieces are kinda/sorta entry level but the ~ $2,000 OMD1 and GH-6 aren't exactly affordable. Maybe Canon will bring down the R6 price closer to $2,000 in order to compete in that range.
 
My ex wife kept me medicated from suffering from GAS. Well at least she tried to. Hated it at the time but considering how much GAS has cost me during the pandemic/divorce maybe it was a good thing. First it was a P4k, then a Canon M6 mk2 and then a Canon R6. I bought hundreds of other items however like random support gear and accessories that I'm sure totaled way more than the camera purchases. Lets just blame it on a mini mid life crisis as well.

Some middle age guys getting divorced buy a convertible. I buy camera gear.

I bought my 50 GM f/1.2 late one night after my wife and I had a big fight. I had been considering it, weighing the pros and cons, probably would have bought it eventually... it was an expensive pick-me-up, but it did the trick. I should probably wait to make all my big gear purchases until I'm feeling depressed for the therapeutic value
 
I bought my 50 GM f/1.2 late one night after my wife and I had a big fight. I had been considering it, weighing the pros and cons, probably would have bought it eventually... it was an expensive pick-me-up, but it did the trick. I should probably wait to make all my big gear purchases until I'm feeling depressed for the therapeutic value

If I bought gear like that after a big fight there would have been no more fights because I would have likely been murdered.

You are all some brave individuals.
 
So, it looks like a Sony 21 MPX IMX 472 sensor for both OMD and Panasonic. IMX 472 is indeed a Quad Bayer sensor but 5/20 rather than 20/80. Two cameras seem very much alike, though I am sure there'll be some feature differences. OMD promises decent auto focus. If GH-6 cam match it instead of offering its only contrast detect DeepFlippin'Deal, it might finally come up to the current standards.

IMO, 21 MPX for stills is insufficient at the time and at this price since Sony has had a 24 MPX ZV E-10 for $700 since the middle of 2021, while Canon has had several APS-C models with 24 and 32 MPX for well under a grand as well.

For video, however, the cheaper Sony models 8-bite the dust.
 
So, it looks like a Sony 21 MPX IMX 472 sensor for both OMD and Panasonic. IMX 472 is indeed a Quad Bayer sensor but 5/20 rather than 20/80. Two cameras seem very much alike, though I am sure there'll be some feature differences. OMD promises decent auto focus. If GH-6 cam match it instead of offering its only contrast detect DeepFlippin'Deal, it might finally come up to the current standards.

IMO, 21 MPX for stills is insufficient at the time and at this price since Sony has had a 24 MPX ZV E-10 for $700 since the middle of 2021, while Canon has had several APS-C models with 24 and 32 MPX for well under a grand as well.

For video, however, the cheaper Sony models 8-bite the dust.

The R6 only has 20 MP and a popular beast for the pro photo market so far. After a certain point the extra MP are gravy and marketing and mostly used to "fix" poorly shot photos. Its cool we can get higher MP. Just sold a Canon M6 Mk2 with 32 MP. It was insane how many pixels the photos had but in the end I also found it to be too much. Took much longer to offload and process and many lenses couldn't even resolve that extra detail. It was having more pixels just to have more pixels and not really providing any more fine detail in the photos. I was more than happy to drop back down to a realistic level. 20-26MP seems to be the sweet spot. Only reason I would have preferred the R6 to have just a tiny bit more resolution is so the APS-C video crop mode could have had the full 3840 wide resolution. I still think it looks great but having a perfect 1:1 would have been better.

For those not cropping however the sensor is perfectly wonderful. Eventually I will no longer have APS-C lenses so it will not be as big of a deal. The APS-C is nice for extra reach as well but if one is using it just for that they could just crop in post for the extra reach. Thats the one area where the R6 isn't spectacular of course but I would rather buy telephoto lenses or teleconverters vs cropping into images. For photo or video I have never been a fan of cropping in. The detail characteristic of images changes between images when one does different levels of cropping. Every lens resolves details differently as well at various crop levels. Its just not an optimal way to work. Neither is a teleconverter which optically blows up what the lens can resolve.

This is why I always preferred APS-C and its unfortunate the industry seems to want to let APSC die off or not take it seriously besides Fuji.

In the case of m43 the extra reach argument is pretty much null so the need for a ton of MP becomes much less important. At least not as important as it is on FF where the only realistic option for many on FF is to crop to get a similar m43 FOV. Thats why FF makes more sense to have 40+ MP. Brute force massive images to mess with later is in many cases the only option or at least the only affordable option. M43 only really needs enough extra resolution to "fix" framing and provide enough natural detail for large prints. Unless one wants to do massive prints like posters or larger which is 0.1% of print work. The R5 is a 2x crop mode is only a 11.2MP image vs a M43 camera with the same crop at a 20MP or higher image. So at that crop factor is still vastly more detailed than a crop could ever be from a FF camera right now. A FF camera would need to be 72 MP to resolve the same detail at a 2x crop as the GH5 can do now. Thats why anything above 20MP for m43 to me is super impressive. Plus FF glass isn't really designed to resolve e that level of fine detail at a 2x cop. Even a APS-C crop starts to show a weakness in many FF lens designs. A 2x crop is really not using that glass to its full potential and many m43 lenses are designed specifically to resolve that level of fine detail at that crop factor. So a 20MP m43 image could have better optically resolved details.

Even for a APSC crop on a 45MP FF camera its only resolving as much detail las the GH5 can already do. The GH5 with a focal reducer is essentially the same level of detail with the same lens resolving potential for the same extra reach. Thats why 20MP on m43 is very good.

Since m43 glass is already resolving extreme fine detail going too high on m43 is going to start to suffer. 32 MP on m43 would struggle with many m43 lenses and FF adapted lenses would really struggle. Thats why I think its really best for m43 to stay is a zone that makes the most sense for the format and thats 20MP-26MP.

Finally I always preferred the 4x3 nature of m43 over the 3x2 aspect of FF. 4x3 sacrifices less of the horizontal when cropping to print formats. FF tends to have to crop the horizontal more to match the aspect ratio of print formats. For example even though the R6 is 5472 wide vs the 5184 wide of the GH5 because of the more narrow aspect ratio of the R6 a 10x8" print has to crop to 4560x3648 vs the GH5 which can use 4320x3456. Thats not a huge difference and if the GH6 is a tad higher it likely can now match the R6 for resolution once cropped.
 
I crop all the time. Rarely, I do not.

In any case, OMD 1 will have an 80 MPX pixel shifter on a tripod and a 50 MPX handheld. Which is not all that different than it had before.

What is different is 1,053 contrast detect and 1,053 phase detect auto focus points. That will bring it into the "modern" era.

In video, it'll have H265 4K.

OMD is also releasing updated 12-40 F2.8 and 40-150 F4.0 lenses.

It's not that bad of a package for ~ $2,000.

Panasonic, presumably, has the same sensor.
 
5x faster AF is cool but the bigger issue with DFD AF is not so much the speed as it is the pulsing. Maybe that will be fast enough to not notice pulsing.
It pulses 5x faster. :p

I stand by what I said all along. Upgrading to a faster processor and not changing their AF approach is what I expected. They're too deeply entrenched in their position. To admit that Sony and Canon approach to AF is superior would be a pill too bitter for them to swallow.
 
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No rolling shutter, or minimal. Solid AF. GH5s level lowlight with resolution of a GH5. 4k60p 10bit 422 plus even higher options. Likely raw output. Classic GH series ergonomics/UI and reliability. Sounds good, I’m in.

I just hope they’ve improved the image processing and mojo to get a little less digitized of a look. Guessing we’ll see it around $2300 price point. Maybe $2500.

Ill probably use this camera more than my S1H or EVA1. They're just so easy to use, lightweight, feel like a toy… makes it easy physically and mentally to stay focused on creativity and content.

Cool. Look forward to the official announcement. Can’t believe it’s been 5 years since GH5, and that camera still shoots quality footage.
 
On another note, covid break has been good. Perspective. Obsessing about specs and m43 vs apsc vs FF. Meh. They’re all great results in most cases if you know what you’re doing. Things have plateaued quite a bit… the notion of skipping a GH6 because an S5 is a similar price is silly IMO. Most of the time we’re all shooting 24p to 60p content with maybe a little extra slow motion for flair. Low light is good on all in the range of professionally viable solutions now.

It’s veering closer and closer to preference on things like lens eco system, size, UI, reliability. It’s like arguing Toyota vs honda because one has 20hp more or weighs 200lbs less. I guess if you really need that… but factors like color, styling, interior become more relevant now.

If the GH6 sample footage looks all digitized than I’ll change my tune, but I imagine with sensor advancements they’ll have toned that down a bit and we’ll have a great image and feature set. We’ll give up some FOV, lowlight, and dynamic range with M43 but gain some frame rates and codecs and other niceties. In a nice small, nimble package.

Prioritize the features and workflow and quality of life considerations that *actually* matter to your day to day, and leave the spec sheets filled with theoretically nice to have top end features on the sideline.
 
It pulses 5x faster. :p

I stand by what I said all along. Upgrading to a faster processor and not changing their AF approach is what I expected. They're too deeply entrenched in their position. To admit that Sony and Canon approach to AF is superior would be a pill too bitter for them to swallow.

DPAF is not superior to DFD. Its different. There are cases where DFD is superior which is why Sony does a hybrid approach. DPAF is not as accurate and sometimes a hybrid system will use DFD to get the rest of the way. Plus I have used DPAF enough now to realize it is amazing in some cases and kind of sucks in others. If I am shooting a person with eyes its pretty good within a decent f stop range. My Canon 50mm f1.8 turns to crap at f5.6 or slower for example. DPAF works best at a certain f stop range and seems to need a certain amount of light hitting the sensor for it to figure out whats going on. So for me DPAF is amazing sometimes and crap sometimes. DFD is ok all the time no matter what if one can live with the pulsing. If I'm shooting something that is not a person or animal the DPAF on the R6 kind of struggles a bit. Its not really sure what to focus on and in those cases I end up having to use manual focus anyway. Its that kind of stuff I actually feel DFD does better.

That pulsing is how DFD can nail perfect focus however. Its how we focus by riding the wheel back and forth to find the point thats sharpest. It just does it super fast compared to what we can do so it looks funny. I'm not really opposed to DFD but it needed a lot more processing power. Thats why cameras like the S5 are now considered good AF when shooting 60p formats but still pretty bad shooting 24p. You need a faster readout so the DFD can work faster so we do not notice. 5x faster DFD means 24p now focuses as if it was 120p which could be huge and enough to make it very accurate and maybe not even notice the pulsing. If the Dad can rock back and forth within 1/120th of a second we likely will not see it with 24p nearly as much. We will have to see how that looks in practice.

I would love for Panasonic to also take a hybrid approach and allow us to choose which one to use. Sometimes we want AF to stay locked on as a selfie camera. Other times I want to shoot nature and a fast DFD might be better.
 
No rolling shutter, or minimal. Solid AF. GH5s level lowlight with resolution of a GH5. 4k60p 10bit 422 plus even higher options. Likely raw output. Classic GH series ergonomics/UI and reliability. Sounds good, I’m in.

I just hope they’ve improved the image processing and mojo to get a little less digitized of a look. Guessing we’ll see it around $2300 price point. Maybe $2500.

Ill probably use this camera more than my S1H or EVA1. They're just so easy to use, lightweight, feel like a toy… makes it easy physically and mentally to stay focused on creativity and content.

Cool. Look forward to the official announcement. Can’t believe it’s been 5 years since GH5, and that camera still shoots quality footage.

When did we hear similar low light to the GH5S? I personally see that as physically impossible but hey what do I know. The law of physics are really working against that one. We also have not heard if it will have external raw support. The Gh5 II does not even though it has a newer processor. So far the only Panasonic m43 that support external raw are the 1:1 4k sensor cameras. Not sure why a more dense m43 sensor could not do it but so far we don't have a model that does. Only the FF cameras do. I ki9nd of think if it does not have external raw its going to really hurt the camera. Many may find the raw performance to be a bit weak in terms of noise however. It would almost be a must to need to use noise reduction in post with raw from the larger MP m43 sensor.
 
I crop all the time. Rarely, I do not.

In any case, OMD 1 will have an 80 MPX pixel shifter on a tripod and a 50 MPX handheld. Which is not all that different than it had before.

What is different is 1,053 contrast detect and 1,053 phase detect auto focus points. That will bring it into the "modern" era.

In video, it'll have H265 4K.

OMD is also releasing updated 12-40 F2.8 and 40-150 F4.0 lenses.

It's not that bad of a package for ~ $2,000.

Panasonic, presumably, has the same sensor.

Totally and there are some that do love being able to crop. My point was that the Canon R6 is a pretty popular camera with professional photographers and its 20MP. MP are not always a must for everyone. Even those that earn a living from photography.

I have also been playing with Gigapixel AI to upscale images and its super impressive. Might be an even better solution to the sensor shift on OMD cameras to get 80MP. Its also likely a better solution to using a teleconverter which is an optical solution that reduces sharpness. I can easily do a 2x scale in Gigapixel to get the same 80MP and its insanely clean and not limited to static shots. I can even do a 4x scale thats super clean for a 320 MP image. I would of course never expect that to be as good as actually capturing detail with that resolution but its likely more than enough for some normal amount of cropping and reframing. Since its intelligent upscaling it can also likely resolve detail a 80MP or 320MP FF sensor could never get with the current state of FF glass.
 
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