GH5 How interested are you in a GH6 anymore?
- Thread starter filmguy123
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And it's probably not all technical either. A lot of it has to do with the business side.
Thomas Smet
Veteran
Panasonic says the GH6 specs will be released “before Spring arrives”
Speculation of end of February at CP+
Speculation of end of February at CP+
Peter C.
Veteran
They should have just said that their dog ate their homework. At this point that would be more believable.
Thomas Smet
Veteran
You really can't tell that from the handful of specs they gave us. I do think it is however safe to assume it will be contrast detect AF and at the end of the day its still a m43 size sensor packing even more pixels making each pixel very small for gathering light. If I hd to make an educated guess I would say more or less similar AF performance and similar low light performance.
Each model does get slightly better however. The GH6 will likely have even faster and more accurate contrast detect AF. It is getting better with each new model and firmware update. For 60p its actually pretty good now on some models like the S5 and G9. So I do expect some slightly improvement. Since the processing is where Panasonic really has it together that will help as well. Someday they will make contrast detect work really well. Thing is current Panasonic users are kind of used to that AF and I'm not entirely sure that will be as big of a deal breaker as some think it may be. Most of the GH5 users I know are using full manual cine lenses these days anyway so the AF matters absolutely squat to those users. With that said many of them have moved on to the Pocket cameras and may not be very interested in a GH6 anymore. We shall see what the AF will mean for how well the GH6 is received. Considering how we always get 1001 Youtube videos trashing Panasonic AF however I will assume it will be more of that this time as well.
I think the GH6 may even be 1/2 stop better in low light for video thanks to their superior processors and better noise reduction. The newer sensor tech can help as well and each new model from the Gh2, Gh3, GH4 and GH5 did get slightly better each time even though the sensors were the same size and the pixel count increased. It will never be FF or GH5S territory of course but there are. lot of m43 users perfectly ok with that and know what to expect. Not everyone shoots without lights so the sensitivity may not be much of an issue for those already happy with the GH5. Some reviewers may trash the GH6 for this as well.
The other thing that is a given with the limited specs we have is that when Panasonic says it can do 5.7k 60p they mean forever with zero limitations. Not like Canon having 8k but it only works for a few minutes before it overheats. We know the GH6 will not only have perfect 4k 60p that can shoot forever but the same will be true of 5.7k 60p. It will also have 4k 120p that will last forever. All of that in 10bit of course. Some flagship FF models still struggle to handle 4k 60p and really can't do 6k or 4k 120p at all yet. If one loves slow motion the GH6 may be the camera to get in 2022. If one loves the 6k from the Pocket6k and wants a more hybrid option to pair with it the GH6 seems like it will be a solid option.
We also know the sensor will be 4x3 and have some anamorphic modes, DCI, great pool of focal reducers/adapters/lenses and really good scopes and tools to help shoot video. For example Canon doesn't keep a lot of their exposure tools active while recording which is pretty dumb and pointless for run&gun. I have to use a Ninja V to keep tools active while shooting on the R6. We also know Panasonic are masters at IBIS and that is sure to carry over to the GH6 and may even get better by a stop.
Peter C.
Veteran
I'm not sure many people demanding unlimited 4k/120. Maybe for weddings where you want to film slow and dreamy all day but even that you're not filming continuously. I think great AF and low light performance has more applications. The majority of low budget event work is in existing light, shot solo and AF tacking is a great help in those situations. I do agree that there is great value in a camera that is dependable, unlimited record time, doesn't over heat or crop.
Like I said before, the GH6 probably gets enough sales to exist for many years. The process of a company leaving the business or selling their camera division takes decades. Look how long it took Olympus to go under and aren't they still selling cameras under another name. Or look at all the missteps Nikon has made.
Like I said before, the GH6 probably gets enough sales to exist for many years. The process of a company leaving the business or selling their camera division takes decades. Look how long it took Olympus to go under and aren't they still selling cameras under another name. Or look at all the missteps Nikon has made.
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NorBro
Major Contributor
I think they can be out any time they choose to. Samsung was in and out.
There's been a lot of speculation over the years that some of these companies only sell cameras because they are expected to and it's best for the overall image of the business, but they couldn't care less about it because it's a sinking ship.
There's been a lot of speculation over the years that some of these companies only sell cameras because they are expected to and it's best for the overall image of the business, but they couldn't care less about it because it's a sinking ship.
So, when they say "announce specs before spring", do they mean all specs or just the specs they have not yet announced?
It sounds chintzy to me, It's like I wrote with regard to the BMD production snafus many years ago, "We will announce next month that we might announce again in two more months, where we will make another announcement about future announcements".
It sounds chintzy to me, It's like I wrote with regard to the BMD production snafus many years ago, "We will announce next month that we might announce again in two more months, where we will make another announcement about future announcements".
Peter C.
Veteran
That matches with what I perceive as a disinterested attitude. BMD is an example of what can be accomplish if a company isn't lazy.
NorBro
Major Contributor
I do agree with your sentiment but they are definitely not lazy, just controlled.
Can't release products with full potential, and that doesn't motivate anyone in that situation.
BMD is over in Australia and doesn't answer to anyone. Grant always said he wanted to put the best technology possible in the most cost-efficient hardware and he did it.
Can't release products with full potential, and that doesn't motivate anyone in that situation.
BMD is over in Australia and doesn't answer to anyone. Grant always said he wanted to put the best technology possible in the most cost-efficient hardware and he did it.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
I didn't demand it at all. Then I got it and started using it all the time. Slow and dreamy - useful, yes. (I actually tend to use it to film action that's already slow rather than fast action.) But also - 40% (60fps) isn't that slow. Most things that could go 40% could go 20%, or at least the option is nice. But the other place it's been a massive boon for me is slider-type shots on gimbal. So, details of a static object. I was never steady enough with a gimbal to pull off those shots without a slider. But at 120fps, I don't have to be. The wavering of the camera is slowed down enough that it's unnoticeable. And now I get away without using a slider almost all the time, which means I can shoot much faster and pull more complex moves.
Thomas Smet
Veteran
I think you may be assuming a 24p workflow but keep in mind some consider 60p to be normal motion and in that case 120p is only 2x slow motion. While 24p users may not need unlimited 120p the reality is most FF cameras can barely manage 60p right now and 120p is just not possible at all. Even for a few minutes.
I agree low light and AF are nice to have. That’s why I bought a R6 despite its many flaws. I would much prefer a GH6 have those but we have to be realistic that a hybrid m43 will never be amazing in low light. In the case of the P4k or GH5S yes they can be very good but then they suck for stills.
the AF thing is what it is. Panasonic could make it better and they do in fact get better each time. 60p on the latest Panasonic bodies and firmware is actually really good now. The faster readout helps a ton. Eventually 24p will get better. To be fair DPAF has its own flaws as well. When it comes to a hybrid camera I wouldn’t say one AF is superior over the other. Contrast detect is more accurate but it takes longer and it can hint. Works exceptionally well for stills that are slower moving or don’t move at all. Still life, portraits, landscape and so forth. Phase detect works better for fast moving subjects or of course video. Panasonic is sticking to its hybrid roots and providing AF that works very well for stills as well as video under a lot of different aperture and lighting conditions. Phase detect can sometimes not work when the iris is closed a lot. For example even Tony Northrop reviews Canon phase detect as not working very well on some primes when stopped down to f5.6 or smaller. That means phase detect really works best under certain conditions and then kind of falls apart. Contrast has many of the same flaws and benefits no matter the lighting or f stop.
it’s easy to consider contrast detect as inferior due to its focus hunting and that is true which is why I bought a R6 but trust me the R6 has its AF flaws as well. It’s just another tool and one I enjoy now having. I hope if Panasonic uses phase detect someday they take a hybrid approach and keep both and keep trying to make contrast detect better. Eventually contrast detect may even be as good as phase detect. Some reviewers are now saying 60p is pretty darn close if not there already. Maybe a 120hz sensor will be used by Panasonic to help with the 24p readout speed. 120 is exactly 5x 24p and if the 120 readout is fast enough it could potentially be very fast 24p AF.
Zim
Veteran
Just about every review says the GH5II auto focus is better. So no reason to think they will not improve it on the GH6. Le'ts hope so. This one one review of a camera buyer on B&H
"The autofocus is greatly improved without pulsing and hunting it can track faces with confidence. Also the dynamic range has been greatly improved and the image quality is dramatically improved in color science and jpeg rendering I would say they fixed all the shortcomings of the GH5 with the same dependability."
NorBro
Major Contributor
Can't completely trust reviews like this because people don't know any better, see any better. Meaning they don't know what good AF is or they don't literately see any better.
Rip video tests off of YouTube that are more than 5 seconds long and zoom in 200%, 300% on the image and confirm yourself if what's happening is okay for you.
I'm sure it's improved over the years because how could it not after 15 years of cameras like this, but I'd keep an open mind with people's experiences.
stoneinapond
Veteran
Don't forget to include the never ending parade of Best Seller tags from certain retailers :wink:
NorBro
Major Contributor
Those seem accurate though because Canon and Sony always get them and Panasonic doesn't. lol
However, Blackmagic Pockets always on top for like 4 years...although R5, a7SIII and FX3 knocked them around for a bit some weeks.
Anyone who knows cameras or is in touch with YouTube could probably guess what the best sellers are and the list would be close to what it actually is.
However, Blackmagic Pockets always on top for like 4 years...although R5, a7SIII and FX3 knocked them around for a bit some weeks.
Anyone who knows cameras or is in touch with YouTube could probably guess what the best sellers are and the list would be close to what it actually is.
Zim
Veteran
200 to 300% zoomed in is your test? It must be better if that is your standard!
Yes it is probably not perfect but improved. These are from people who actually have the camera ,not taking them off Youtube and zooming in 300%
The lens a person is using could effect the AF as well.
NorBro
Major Contributor
Well, yeah...that's how professionals test AF. But I'm assuming you've never heard of it...
Anyone can buy a camera and still be ignorant, uninformed.
Zooming in 200%, 300% shows the AF system's flaws which you won't see with Canon or Sony in the same ideal setting.
I already explained this to you many times but you don't seem to be catching on and just go back to what people say in "reviews". lol
The Panasonics twitch and you'll see bokeh growing and shrinking over time. They don't hold focus like Canon and Sony.
I don't need to buy the camera to confirm my own results if all of the other tests I'm watching are doing the same thing.
Me owning the camera won't make it magically better.
People who don't have any AF experience don't see this. If you film a person perfectly lit, sitting in a chair looking at the camera, for about 40 seconds the Panasonic might be absolutely perfect and then all of a sudden at 41 seconds the focus starts to twitch back-and-forth. No rhyme or reason.
You don't need to listen to me but you will eventually learn for yourself when you decide you want to learn.
NorBro
Major Contributor
Don't even need to zoom in...just look at the Christmas tree lights (already linked at the correct time).
This is what has depressed us over the years and this pains me when you know they could have it right:
https://youtu.be/h3IuyguDUms?t=341
This is what has depressed us over the years and this pains me when you know they could have it right:
https://youtu.be/h3IuyguDUms?t=341
NorBro
Major Contributor
Final mention...one might say the Christmas tree lights are affecting the focus and that's a valid thought - but I've already seen other tests (and have done my own with other cameras) that lead me to believe it's mostly a non-factor for superior systems. (As long as they aren't too bright or overwhelming the frame.)
I can't find Gordon Laing's test with the same lights he's using below, but in the video below he has a short clip at 54 seconds where he walks toward the camera and if you look at the lights they are beautifully, rock solid. (The transition in the size of the bokeh could be better but that's more on the quality of the lens than anything else.)
Canon at its best...and if you happen to find the longer test, he walks back and forth and the lights behave as they should.
Not freaking out like the knucklehead system Panasonic is using:
I can't find Gordon Laing's test with the same lights he's using below, but in the video below he has a short clip at 54 seconds where he walks toward the camera and if you look at the lights they are beautifully, rock solid. (The transition in the size of the bokeh could be better but that's more on the quality of the lens than anything else.)
Canon at its best...and if you happen to find the longer test, he walks back and forth and the lights behave as they should.
Not freaking out like the knucklehead system Panasonic is using: