GH5 How interested are you in a GH6 anymore?

I would think Sony would reserve any 8K MFT for their friends at Panasonic.

Unless Panasonic is done with MFT cameras.
 
It made sense for Sony to keep Olympus and Panasonic making MFT and out of the full frame market. The problem is that Canon began selling their full frame cameras for less than the MFT Alliance was selling theirs with much smaller sensors. I happen to think that MFT makes for a perfect entry level lineup but that would only make sense if the same manufacturer had MFT + APS-C / FF to offer. Otherwise, margins get too thin in the sub-$1,000 sector because there aren't enough units moved to cover the overhead. But the alternatives is five companies (Canon, Sony, Nikon, Sigma, Pentax) jostling each other in the full frame niche. And even with Pentax virtually dropping out and Sigma relegated to the cripple lead, it still leaves three major entrants in the falling market. And so it'd make sense again to keep Panasonic and Olympus making MFT, with Nikon and Sony APS-C (in addition to FF). Except, as I had noted before, while they can control the supply, they can't control the demand and someone always ends up with the short end of the stick.

PS. Olympus/OMD says they won't make full frame. Which means that they might make the medium format. Which they made before. On film.
 
It could be an interim model, as they wait for the R3, A7RV and Z8/Z9 to set the market first. In the automotive industry, this is called a mid-cycle refresh, something to salvage the lagging sales numbers. But then again, it's not a car market and five years is a late-cycle refresh in electronics. The high end cameras, such all iterations of Alexa, do provide updated electronic blocks. Maybe this will do that and add a new codec on top of that.

Or maybe they're waiting for a new Sony sensor to go into production before diving into GH-6 and this will have the GH-6 guts, more or less, thus saving on the component costs.

Nonetheless, it's a curious decision.
 
Maybe this will be Panasonic’s move into phase-detection autofocus.

If not, it will flop with those specs and that price in 2021. Moreover, it would send a clear warning about Panasonic’s intentions for Micro Four Thirds, after a string of ambiguous signals. What is needed for a serious GH5 successor is 4K 120p or 8K of some description; in other words, a new sensor.

I think it would be a great shame if the full-frame fad kills Micro Four Thirds, i.e. meaningful choice in the market.

I guess this camera will at least record 4K 60p 10-bit 4:2:2 internally. Maybe it will output Raw or do something genuinely impressive/useful to make up for the re-used hardware? Panasonic could use the same processing pipeline in its other cameras, so development costs wouldn’t have to be paid for by GH5 Mark II sales alone.
 
Well, it has identical dimensions to the GH5 but is 2 g heavier. How much does each phase-detection autofocus pixel weigh? We need a few hundred of them.
 
FWIW, Olympus EM1 MKII and MKIII have 242 total AF points, with 121 each in phase and contrast detect. GH-5 has the same sensor but with 225 (only contrast detect) points. The total number of the AF points is likely to be the sensor limitation but the phase detect is technically available. Off reviews, the top Olympus models do fairly well on static subjects in stills, not so well on moving subjects in anything.
 
Silly update, if true...but since 2021 falls on a major year of recycling camera models with barely any internal improvements and some external, it makes a lot of sense to add one more to the list.

Maybe the GH5 is physically different somehow.

We'll see...

S1 --> S5
a7SIII --> FX3
Pocket 6K --> Pocket 6K Pro
fp --> fp L
R5 --> R# (pending)
GH5 --> GH5 II (pending)
 
I wouldn't read too much into those crude specs. They are a leak and only a small fraction of the specs of a camera. There is a lot more we don't know than what we know assuming this is even an accurate rumor.

Remember the GH4 was more or less a similar sensor to the GH3 and yet opened up a whole new world with 4k video. Sometimes processing makes all the difference. Also features like focus peaking have nothing to do with the sensor itself so there could be a ton of software advancements on a mk2 camera. While Panasonic may get their sensor from Sony or somewhere else they do a lot of their own processing which is industry leading.

A mk2 could potentially have:

1. 4k 60p 10bit because we know the sensor can do it because it works for external recording. Its the processing that was limited.
2. Color science which we know Has been improved on the GH5S and the S series cameras. Sensor might play into this but Panasonic could tweak how its mapped to better fit with their newer cameras.
3. Some of the other annoying processing things like 10bit for ETC modes or better processing of slow motion material. Right now the GH5 has to use progressively worse processing modes for slow motion the more frames sho with. Maybe that processing can be greatly improved and use the same natural scaling for slow motion as it does for normal shooting modes. Shooting a nice clean 180fps that looks as good as 24p would be a rather significant upgrade over the GH5 for those that love slow motion.
4. Since Panasonic makes their own encoder they could add in a 4:4:4 recording mode to try to compete in the market and provide a somewhat decent alternative to Braw. Being able to get 4:4:4 log internally would be a rather awesome selling point even if it is h264 or h265 based.
5. Full V-log or at least fix V-log L. Sony and others have different levels of log to work with different ranges of DR. Panasonic can as well and it might breathe some new life into log. I realize full V-log may not be possible on a 12 stop sensor and thats why Panasonic should make a special V-log that works better with the GH sensors. The vast majority of GH users do not need to match luts with a Varicam.
6. New scopes and tools to help expose shots for HLG and log like false color.
7. Better noise reduction thanks to better processing. Might help push the same sensor another stop.
8. raw to external. Not entirely sure if thats a good idea. Raw pretty much requires either full sensor or a crop for 4k video. How many GH5 users would want 5.2k raw video as an only option? plus that really could have been a firmware update much like it is on the S series cameras. That could potentially upset a lot of loyal GH users. Cropped 4k might be somewhat useful. Especially if using a focal reducer that could get back closer to a m43 crop factor.
9. Dare I say it but for heavens sake somebody please add ProRes Raw and/or Braw internally to a camera. SD cards can be fast enough for some flavors of Braw. At the very least add support to record to a USBC drive like BMD does. Thats a much more attractive options vs forced to use an external recorder/monitor for raw. All these cameras adding external raw has been a bit of a head scratcher for me. I moved to a P4k and honestly its going to take a lot more than just adding external raw to bring me back. I can even record some levels of Braw to SD cards. No external solution can compete with the convenience of that.
 
I wouldn't read too much into those crude specs. They are a leak and only a small fraction of the specs of a camera. There is a lot more we don't know than what we know assuming this is even an accurate rumor.

Remember the GH4 was more or less a similar sensor to the GH3 and yet opened up a whole new world with 4k video. Sometimes processing makes all the difference. Also features like focus peaking have nothing to do with the sensor itself so there could be a ton of software advancements on a mk2 camera. While Panasonic may get their sensor from Sony or somewhere else they do a lot of their own processing which is industry leading.

A mk2 could potentially have:

1. 4k 60p 10bit because we know the sensor can do it because it works for external recording. Its the processing that was limited.
2. Color science which we know Has been improved on the GH5S and the S series cameras. Sensor might play into this but Panasonic could tweak how its mapped to better fit with their newer cameras.
3. Some of the other annoying processing things like 10bit for ETC modes or better processing of slow motion material. Right now the GH5 has to use progressively worse processing modes for slow motion the more frames sho with. Maybe that processing can be greatly improved and use the same natural scaling for slow motion as it does for normal shooting modes. Shooting a nice clean 180fps that looks as good as 24p would be a rather significant upgrade over the GH5 for those that love slow motion.
4. Since Panasonic makes their own encoder they could add in a 4:4:4 recording mode to try to compete in the market and provide a somewhat decent alternative to Braw. Being able to get 4:4:4 log internally would be a rather awesome selling point even if it is h264 or h265 based.
5. Full V-log or at least fix V-log L. Sony and others have different levels of log to work with different ranges of DR. Panasonic can as well and it might breathe some new life into log. I realize full V-log may not be possible on a 12 stop sensor and thats why Panasonic should make a special V-log that works better with the GH sensors. The vast majority of GH users do not need to match luts with a Varicam.
6. New scopes and tools to help expose shots for HLG and log like false color.
7. Better noise reduction thanks to better processing. Might help push the same sensor another stop.
8. raw to external. Not entirely sure if thats a good idea. Raw pretty much requires either full sensor or a crop for 4k video. How many GH5 users would want 5.2k raw video as an only option? plus that really could have been a firmware update much like it is on the S series cameras. That could potentially upset a lot of loyal GH users. Cropped 4k might be somewhat useful. Especially if using a focal reducer that could get back closer to a m43 crop factor.
9. Dare I say it but for heavens sake somebody please add ProRes Raw and/or Braw internally to a camera. SD cards can be fast enough for some flavors of Braw. At the very least add support to record to a USBC drive like BMD does. Thats a much more attractive options vs forced to use an external recorder/monitor for raw. All these cameras adding external raw has been a bit of a head scratcher for me. I moved to a P4k and honestly its going to take a lot more than just adding external raw to bring me back. I can even record some levels of Braw to SD cards. No external solution can compete with the convenience of that.

I'd be shocked if it didn't have 4k60p 10-bit 4:2:2 internal.

I thought part of the reason the GH5 never got full v-log was because the sensor DR (or SNR, what have you) doesn't exceed v-log L anyway.

I also wonder if there might be a color depth advantage to larger sensors.

All your other speculation sounds great. I sort of doubt they'll do ProRes or ProRes raw internal. But as we all know, if any mirrorless company did it, it would be Panasonic.

My guess is they give it a brand new sensor and beat that drum. Probably higher specs on the same contrast AF system, too.
 
At this point, is anyone still actually interested in a GH5 successor? I mean interested enough to buy one; to pick up MFT glass (and/or speed boosters)?

For those of us still using MFT everyday, the GH5 II would have to be significantly better then whatever setups we're using now, and that's looking very doubtful at this point.

And let's be totally honest about this - how many here are interested in a MFT hybrid/DSLR style camera at all? I'm guessing no one here uses a MFT for stills unless it's an emergency. We use these cameras as either cinema cameras, or for corporate/ENG-style work. My particular little setup is a Pocket 4K for controlled environments; Oly EM1 MII for run & gun.

Is a GH5 II with more than 20 megapixels going to be better in low light than the 8mp Blackmagic? Doubtful. Look better/more filmic? Probably not. Will it have Braw or Prores? Unlikely.

Is it going to have significantly better IBIS than the original GH5 or the EMII/III? Unless it's a straight up stedicam, no. Will it have better AF then the Oly MII/III or the Canon & Sony cameras? If it doesn't then it's immediately DOA.

Now, all that doesn't mean it won't be a nice camera, something perhaps a small segment of shooters will be interested in (nature/adventure docs come to mind). It will no doubt have very nice slo-mo and better color science than the GH5 (although that is a low bar). It'll likely sync up nicely and live-stream too.

But again, in an economy that looks to headed south very quickly, is this a camera that you'd give up your full frame setups for?

Sony waited a long time to come out with the A7sIII, and fair to say that it's pretty amazing. But it's amazing because what it can do in the full frame format. Even if the GH5 II is exactly the same in stats (and it certainly won't be in low light or AF), it would still be the inferior camera in most people's eyes.

When Panasonic made the decision to jump into full frame, it effectively ended any chance of a timely release for the GH5 II. I know that's not a hot take, but the reality of that decision is only now coming home to roost.
 
I said a half a year ago in this thread that I could see the writing on the wall. The tide had changed to full frame. Panasonic most likely didn't have the technical ability to improve the focus, low light ability and over all image quality with this sensor size. Even if they could improve these things the GH6 would need to be priced close to their own FF S5. I couldn't see them offering M43 to compete against their entry level FF. Not only that but they are trying to get people to buy into the L mount lenses. GH had a good run where it filled a niche, but now they're are caught in no man's land. Its photo form factor that isn't well suited for photography and there are many better options for either hybrid or straight video camera by Canon and Sony. I see them riding out the Gh5 for as long as sales will justify.
 
Still on the GH bandwagon over here for sure, and I say that owning an S1H and EVA1. As well I genuinely believe Panny will be releasing a killer GH6 in the fall.

If anything, my experience with the S1H, which has been GREAT, has shown me there is still a place for the GH line. My last trip to Indonesia, which I evac'ed from last year when everything was shutting down globally, was a little arduous with my FF lenses and S1H. When I head back when things eventually settle down, I would prefer to bring a GH6 and lens kit. It is just so much more travel friendly for a OMB run/gun docu setup. Especially with the 10-25 lens.

The GH5 IQ pales compared to S1H these days, but if Panasonic can get a less digitized look to the GH6 footage, bring GH5S lowlight into an IBIS package, and hook us up with 4k60p 10-bit 420 or higher, slam dunk as far as I am concerned. I suspect we'll see 4k120p 10-bit 420 or 422, though, and hopefully they bring their AF game up to snuff. I also suspect they will get competitive and include things like False Color right in the UI, and a very high quality EVF and LCD.

Rumor mill stated Panasonic was planning a September announcement to coincide with Lumix anniversary.
 
Back
Top