GH1 firmware research volunteers required

Ben_B said:
As great as no-pulldown is, I am of the belief that convenience on set (being able to check a take) outweighs convenience in post (especially when that means just dropping some footage into a droplet and letting it go.)
Click to expand...

I AGREE that being able to view what you have shot on set is more useful than having to simply remove pull-down in neoscene (this is still a waste of time). Although, I would gladly sacrifice being able to view in camera on set if native 720/24p were able to be accomplished, since having native 24p in camera would be far better than having to convert 60p to 24p. I have yet to figure out how to do this without some sort of issue with image.
 
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eye-fi!

eye-fi!

On set you have laptop's, netbooks or something with wifi, with eye-fi you can monitor wirlessley all over the set what has just been taken, direct from the cam;-)
 
if it's possible to playback in camera, awesome, but it's really not necessary. it was such a breeze to playback on my laptop onset than to have looked at each or every other clip after shooting. it aslo saved me time too. i think it's better to view something on a full 1080p screen for playback vs a little lcd screen.
 
JerryB said:
I AGREE that being able to view what you have shot on set is more useful than having to simply remove pull-down in neoscene (this is still a waste of time). Although, I would gladly sacrifice being able to view in camera on set if native 720/24p were able to be accomplished, since having native 24p in camera would be far better than having to convert 60p to 24p. I have yet to figure out how to do this without some sort of issue with image.
Click to expand...

There are methods that do it that seem pretty much perfect. Just dropping it into a 24p timeline looks fine for maybe 80% of footage and for the other 20% I use Compressor. Good sticky on this here: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=175852

Car3o said:
if it's possible to playback in camera, awesome, but it's really not necessary. it was such a breeze to playback on my laptop onset than to have looked at each or every other clip after shooting. it aslo saved me time too. i think it's better to view something on a full 1080p screen for playback vs a little lcd screen.
Click to expand...

I use an HDMI monitor for playback on set. I usually just have my hackintosh netbook in my bag to dump cards on set, to save the space of a real laptop, so it doesn't play back too well. I also check the sound very often, my audio plug is a little messed up so before I shoot I always make sure the mic is coming in properly. Additionally, I like to be able to zoom in on the first frame (you can zoom before you hit play) and check for moiré...and being able to do that without toting a rig around is convenient...can you still do this with the patch?
 
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Hi tester. This is just to let you know the whole pulldown thing aint working out super well.
I shot something today with the settings I mentioned above, these are:
-30 min removal
-Native 24p
-Pal>NTSC

-Video Buffer: 25.000.000
-Bitrate 1: 20000000
-Bitrate 2: 21000000

And I'd like to show you what I'm seeing. My NLE (confirmed across Premiere AND After Effects) shows it as 23.976p, as it should. However it shows some subtle interlace lines in the areas with a lot of chroma...


http://imgur.com/mPRAS.jpg


These can be removed at the expense of ghosting by changing it to upper or lower field first...
http://imgur.com/mPRAS.jpg
http://imgur.com/zwE2L.jpg
 
Tester13: Transaction ID: 0J807190J9708683Y

Tester13: Transaction ID: 0J807190J9708683Y

Donated. Just the 24p without doing back flips is HUGE to me, anything else is icing. Thanks for your contribution!

Ben_B said:
I like to be able to zoom in on the first frame (you can zoom before you hit play) and check for moiré...and being able to do that without toting a rig around is convenient...can you still do this with the patch?
Click to expand...

In short, Ben, no. Not only can you not zoom, but if you have ANY 1080p footage on your card when you cycle the camera on you will not be able to preview anything whatsoever--that includes pictures and 720p material. To do so you need to record a quick 720p clip or take a picture to make sure 1st item playing back is not the 1080p footage.
 
andyjar said:
Hi tester. This is just to let you know the whole pulldown thing aint working out super well.
I shot something today with the settings I mentioned above, these are:
-30 min removal
-Native 24p
-Pal>NTSC

-Video Buffer: 25.000.000
-Bitrate 1: 20000000
-Bitrate 2: 21000000

And I'd like to show you what I'm seeing. My NLE (confirmed across Premiere AND After Effects) shows it as 23.976p, as it should. However it shows some subtle interlace lines in the areas with a lot of chroma...


http://imgur.com/mPRAS.jpg


These can be removed at the expense of ghosting by changing it to upper or lower field first...
http://imgur.com/mPRAS.jpg
http://imgur.com/zwE2L.jpg
Click to expand...

I don't think that's interlacing, I think that's the 4:2:0 chroma subsampling...in fact...I bet this might be an issue!!!

According to wikipedia, this is what you get when you apply interlaced chroma subsampling to a progressive frame:
420-interlaced-still.png


Looks pretty similar to your crop eh? I bet this is what's happening in camera. However, I have noticed this on footage with the pulldown removed as well...I think it's an artifact of the way the camera does 4:2:0 which then ends up on progressive footage.
 
Ben_B said:
I don't think that's interlacing, I think that's the 4:2:0 chroma subsampling...in fact...I bet this might be an issue!!!

According to wikipedia, this is what you get when you apply interlaced chroma subsampling to a progressive frame:
420-interlaced-still.png


Looks pretty similar to your crop eh? I bet this is what's happening in camera. However, I have noticed this on footage with the pulldown removed as well...I think it's an artifact of the way the camera does 4:2:0 which then ends up on progressive footage.
Click to expand...

This may very well be it, however I never noticed it with the regular Panasonic firmware shooting 25p native.
 
I've actually only noticed it when color keying, I think I frakked things up converting to 422 10-bit. But yeah, it's definetly an issue with interlaced chroma subsampling and progressive frames.
 
Also depends on your version of Premiere. CS4 bugs on AVCHD footage and progressive chroma. Try that footage in a different NLE, or upload the clip and let us try it, because I got burned on CS4's buggy AVCHD 4:2:0 "progressive" chroma.
 
CS4 and CS5 will play AVCHD and you can edit it natively, but don't expect it to be without issues. Both NLE's are still ironing out kinks. The 24p stuff I've shot, to me, looks great and plays fine, but there are artifacts from preview that show up all the time, but aren't in the file. Same goes if I were to play it in VLC.
 
Ben_B said:
There are methods that do it that seem pretty much perfect. Just dropping it into a 24p timeline looks fine for maybe 80% of footage and for the other 20% I use Compressor. Good sticky on this here: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=175852



I use an HDMI monitor for playback on set. I usually just have my hackintosh netbook in my bag to dump cards on set, to save the space of a real laptop, so it doesn't play back too well. I also check the sound very often, my audio plug is a little messed up so before I shoot I always make sure the mic is coming in properly. Additionally, I like to be able to zoom in on the first frame (you can zoom before you hit play) and check for moiré...and being able to do that without toting a rig around is convenient...can you still do this with the patch?
Click to expand...

Didn't you upload a pic once of 3 macbooks somewhere? A laptop is hardly considered a rig. But to each their own. Maybe tester will find a way to play back native files, but not having to remove pull down is pretty sweet.
 
Car3o said:
Didn't you upload a pic once of 3 macbooks somewhere? A laptop is hardly considered a rig. But to each their own. Maybe tester will find a way to play back native files, but not having to remove pull down is pretty sweet.
Click to expand...

I just meant in a run and gun situation that it would be inconvenient to pull out a laptop...and even though I do narrative filmmaking we often do have run and gun situations. The thing is that it's in these situations where I usually will need to check a take because I won't be sure if we got it...in slower situations with a crew to do things, the kind of situation where I could take the time and space and take out a laptop, are usually the situations where I can reliably be sure the shot was fine.
 
sunsurfh2o said:
Donated. Just the 24p without doing back flips is HUGE to me, anything else is icing. Thanks for your contribution!



In short, Ben, no. Not only can you not zoom, but if you have ANY 1080p footage on your card when you cycle the camera on you will not be able to preview anything whatsoever--that includes pictures and 720p material. To do so you need to record a quick 720p clip or take a picture to make sure 1st item playing back is not the 1080p footage.
Click to expand...
You can also zoom out, view thumbnails, zoom in on a picture / 720p, and restart play mode.
 
Ben_B said:
I just meant in a run and gun situation that it would be inconvenient to pull out a laptop...and even though I do narrative filmmaking we often do have run and gun situations. The thing is that it's in these situations where I usually will need to check a take because I won't be sure if we got it...in slower situations with a crew to do things, the kind of situation where I could take the time and space and take out a laptop, are usually the situations where I can reliably be sure the shot was fine.
Click to expand...

yeah, i can see it for run-n-gun.
 
Chibs said:
You can also zoom out, view thumbnails, zoom in on a picture / 720p, and restart play mode.
Click to expand...

Please explain "restart play mode". When the last file recorded is 1080p and I try to go into play mode, it freezes. Now if I create another file 720p/picture, I can then enter play mode, zoom out and view thumbnails... but as soon as I select any 1080p file in the group it's 'game over'--instant freeze, and therefore no zooming in. Once it freezes only thing that works (that I'm aware of) is to remove the battery, is there some other way to "restart play mode"?
 
I see absolutely no reason that it would improve. It's not normally encoding 60 frames it's recording in a 60i stream with pulldown cadence. It's the exact same number of fields per second.
 
Andyjar, thats jpeg artifacting

Andyjar, thats jpeg artifacting

andyjar said:
Hi tester. This is just to let you know the whole pulldown thing aint working out super well.
I shot something today with the settings I mentioned above, these are:
-30 min removal
-Native 24p
-Pal>NTSC

-Video Buffer: 25.000.000
-Bitrate 1: 20000000
-Bitrate 2: 21000000

And I'd like to show you what I'm seeing. My NLE (confirmed across Premiere AND After Effects) shows it as 23.976p, as it should. However it shows some subtle interlace lines in the areas with a lot of chroma...


http://imgur.com/mPRAS.jpg


These can be removed at the expense of ghosting by changing it to upper or lower field first...

http://imgur.com/zwE2L.jpg
Click to expand...

Viewed at 100%, in the full size jpg there is no over-res artifacts, that insert is blown up 200-300%, happens in all jpgs, once you go beyond 100%, only the very best dslr's can take beyond 200% without such jaggies-artifacts-over sharpen whatever you want to call it, its normal, this looks like a perfect progressive image.!
 
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