Backup audio recording

Curious if there is a hole in my logic here. I'm using a pair of Sennheiser G4s into my two C70s for corporate shoots. I also have a legal-range G3 on deck in case I need a third. The Sennheisers are still solid performers but for big events or shoots in high interference areas, it would be nice to have a pair of on-board recorders with timecode that I can reach for as a backup recording solution. I think the minimum kit that would be meet most of my needs would be two 32 bit clip-on recorders and one timecode box for the camera. Without factoring cables/caddies/media, here's what that looks like from the three current "affordable" brands.

2x Tentacle Track-E
1x Tentacle Sync-E
= $727

2x Deity PR-2
1x Deity TC-1
= $657

Rode Wireless Pro (2x Transmitter, 1x Receiver)
= $349

The Rode solution costs much less. Audio quality aside, the only downsides that I can see with Rode is that I can't jam sync into a Rode device. I can only jam sync from one. That's not a huge deal to me. Also, none of these devices can monitor and record timecode at the same time. But with the Rode, I also have the option to record/monitor without timecode, which neither of the other two ecosystems can offer.

Are there any other reasons not to go with the Rode? Or to look into international versions of these devices? This isn't meant to be a forever solution, just something that I can use until the Zaxcom patent expires.
 
Last edited:
Curious if there is a hole in my logic here. I'm using a pair of Sennheiser G4s into my two C70s for corporate shoots. I have a legal-range G3 on deck as a backup. The Sennheisers are still solid performers but for big events or shoots in high interference areas, it would be nice to have a pair of on-board recorders with timecode that I can reach for as a backup recording solution. I think the minimum kit that would be meet most of my needs would be two 32 bit clip-on recorders and one timecode box for the camera. Without factoring cables/caddies/media, here's what that looks like from the three current "affordable" brands.

2x Tentacle Track-E
1x Tentacle Sync-E
= $727

2x Deity PR-2
1x Deity TC-1
= $657

Rode Wireless Pro (2x Transmitter, 1x Receiver)
= $349

The Rode solution costs much less. Audio quality aside, the only downsides that I can see with Rode is that I can't jam sync into a Rode device. I can only jam sync from one. That's not a huge deal to me. Also, none of these devices can monitor and record timecode at the same time. But with the Rode, I also have the option to record/monitor without timecode, which neither of the other two ecosystems can offer.

Are there any other reasons not to go with the Rode? Or to look into international versions of these devices? This isn't meant to be a forever solution, just something that I can use until the Zaxcom patent expires.
I own a pair of Tentacle Sync E’s. The iPhone app is a great way to monitor time code with them, and of course they keep track of time code internally but maybe I’m misunderstanding what you’re needing there.

The other benefit of the Tentacle solution is you can sync to or from the Sync E and also jam sync into the track E. So although there’s more cost with the Tentacles they would seem to be more universal and could have more utility?
 
Last edited:
I own a pair of Tentacle Sync E’s. The iPhone app is a great way to monitor time code with them, and of course they keep track of time code internally but maybe I’m misunderstanding what you’re needing there.

My primary goal is to have a second system with internal recording that I can place on talent (x2) if needed. Timecode makes syncing easy but would be secondary. I just want that get-out-of-jail-free card if I hit a wall of interference, which happens from time to time.
 
For emergency or secondary use as a backup - sync isn't really an issue now as it's rarely a problem to slip/slide with no timecode if you have a waveform reference - even the one with interference can be used to match sync.
 
In high-interference areas, WiFi is often one of the most crowded areas of the spectrum. That makes systems like the RØDE WirelessGO pretty unreliable. More than that, even though they’ve got the patent license through Zaxcom and the transmitters can record and transmit simultaneously, the range on those systems is pretty bad. It’s especially bad if the TX is on the person’s back, as their body will absorb most of the usable signal and range will be severely limited.

Regarding things like the Tentacle Track E or the Deity PR-2… are you wanting to put a second mic on the talent to feed the backup recorder? That’s about the only way to have both TX and record with those and the Sennheisers in use.

And for timecode workflow with either Tentacle or Deity, you’d want to have a timecode box on each camera. You’ve only stated cost for one box, but you’d need to get two.
 
In high-interference areas, WiFi is often one of the most crowded areas of the spectrum. That makes systems like the RØDE WirelessGO pretty unreliable. More than that, even though they’ve got the patent license through Zaxcom and the transmitters can record and transmit simultaneously, the range on those systems is pretty bad. It’s especially bad if the TX is on the person’s back, as their body will absorb most of the usable signal and range will be severely limited.

Regarding things like the Tentacle Track E or the Deity PR-2… are you wanting to put a second mic on the talent to feed the backup recorder? That’s about the only way to have both TX and record with those and the Sennheisers in use.

And for timecode workflow with either Tentacle or Deity, you’d want to have a timecode box on each camera. You’ve only stated cost for one box, but you’d need to get two.
How I interpreted his post was if he got to a location and his G4 were experiencing interference that he'd have a backup recorder based system. In my experience I've never run into a situation where the older uhs systems couldn't find a clear channel.

If he's not concealing the mic probably any lav recorder would server as a backup. The one advantage Rode/DJI is you can listen to it as it is recording. With concealed lavs clothing noise is the primary concern. One down side with those lower end devices is the delay which is going to give you an echo. Imagine having to conduct and interview with that in your ear. The other option for a backup a wired backup if this is sit down interviews.

I often bring a Tascam DR10L but never have had to use it.
 
Last edited:
For emergency or secondary use as a backup - sync isn't really an issue now as it's rarely a problem to slip/slide with no timecode if you have a waveform reference - even the one with interference can be used to match sync.
A fair point.

Regarding things like the Tentacle Track E or the Deity PR-2… are you wanting to put a second mic on the talent to feed the backup recorder? That’s about the only way to have both TX and record with those and the Sennheisers in use.

And for timecode workflow with either Tentacle or Deity, you’d want to have a timecode box on each camera. You’ve only stated cost for one box, but you’d need to get two.
Yes, I'd place a second mic. This isn't something that I usually do, but it really saved the day on a pretty high profile shoot that I did last week. I don't mind syncing the second camera manually for now but may eventually pick up a second Sync-E. The idea is not to spend too much money because the patent will end soon enough and I'm sure we'll have a whole new set of onboard recording+monitoring+timecode options to choose from.

How I interpreted his post was if he got to a location and his G4 were experiencing interference that he'd have a backup recorder based system. In my experience I've never run into a situation where the older uhs systems couldn't find a clear channel.

If he's not concealing the mic probably any lav recorder would server as a backup. The one advantage Rode/DJI is you can listen to it as it is recording. With concealed lavs clothing noise is the primary concern. One down side with those lower end devices is the delay which is going to give you an echo. Imagine having to conduct and interview with that in your ear. The other option for a backup a wired backup if this is sit down interviews.
As a rule, I do a new scan on every wireless mic for every shoot. I can think of two instances in the past year when I could not find a single clear channel. In both cases, I reached for my trusty old wired lav but it would be nice to be able to go wireless.

I don't know that I worded my original inquiry very well. Basically, I'm trying to have a little added piece of mind for three specific situations:

1) Speakers at a podium while recording from the house mixer. I've run into problems before and even though it's not my fault, it reflects poorly on me if I can't capture clean audio. The last two times I did an event like this, I tracked down the featured speakers beforehand and put a lav on them. Both times, it saved the day. But would have been better without the occasional pops and static, which is why I would prefer onboard recording.

2) I show up and to a shoot at an airport or a telecommunications facility. Or, I just can't find a clear channel. Having that second mic and onboard recorder on the talent would take my stress level way down.

3) I have a doc-style shoot and we are moving around a lot without a chance to re-scan. This is another time that I would add a second mic with onboard recording.

My question is whether using the Rode Wireless Pro strictly as an unmonitored, timecoded backup audio source has any major drawbacks over the Tentacle or Deity offerings. The Rode is half the price of either option, or even less if purchased used on eBay.
 
Like Dustin I use two Tentacle E's and Tentacle Sync with my c70. You can monitor via the Tentacle app with slight latency. I haven't had any issues so far...
 
Like Dustin I use two Tentacle E's and Tentacle Sync with my c70. You can monitor via the Tentacle app with slight latency. I haven't had any issues so far...
I've been using Tentacle's products but I didn't realize that it was even possible to monitor audio while recording! A point for Tentacle.
 
I've been using Tentacle's products but I didn't realize that it was even possible to monitor audio while recording! A point for Tentacle.
I don't own one but from what I understand in the USA you're not allowed monitor while recording. To me that's a big con. Like I said before if you're not concealing mics it's less of an issue. They're not cheap either $700+ for two mic setup and you're going to need to import and sync the files.
 
My question is whether using the Rode Wireless Pro strictly as an unmonitored, timecoded backup audio source has any major drawbacks over the Tentacle or Deity offerings. The Rode is half the price of either option, or even less if purchased used on eBay.
My general impression of Rode Go is they're ok but a bit on the consumer end. Some people have had them fail, so they're not bullet proof. I also dislike their lav mic clip design. Its also not easy to upgrade the lavs since these transmitters deliver lower voltage that won't power some lavs. I'm not a fan of internal no replace batteries.

I don't like Deity Theos because its qwerky and not easy to use (too bad since it's a recorder and wireless uhs) also have the recording/monitoring limitation. The PR2 has good reviews so that's an option.

The Tentacle is a better quality but it can't be monitored while recording. I would lean towards Tentacle as good choice especially for paid work.

I'm a fan of the Tascam 10DRL Pro with the bluetooth adapter you can control the trasmitter via a phone app, see the wave form, but you can't monitor it. Replaceable batteries and lower cost. I use them and find it to be rock solid.
 
Last edited:
I'm a fan of the Tascam 10DRL Pro with the bluetooth adapter you can control the trasmitter via a phone app, see the wave form, but you can't monitor it. Replaceable batteries and lower cost. I use them and find it to be rock solid.
This one wasn't even on my radar. With the Bluetooth option, it's not that far off price-wise from the Deity PR-2. Seems like a good alternative. And timecode too! I just wish it was compatible with timecode boxes outside of Atomos.
 
I've been going back and forth on this a lot. My current favorite option is two PR-2s sourced from an international seller. Unlike Tentacle, these seem to be readily available. Then I could daisy chain them with my G4s and just use one mic.

There's also someone local selling three Sync-E (v.1) boxes for $50 each. I've reached out because that could lower the overall Tentacle price significantly.
 
I don’t find timecode worth the trouble, but I watched a few videos to refresh my memory. I agree the Deity PR2 seems to be the best value/features plus it’s possible to get the global version. The Bluetooth monitoring with the delay is probably sufficient to periodically check that there is no issues such as clothing rustle. Low price, better lav, higher voltage plugin power, replaceable batteries. I prefer that it has a display vs the track e. Dam I want to buy one.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, that's what I've ended up going with: two PR-2s and three TC-1 timecode boxes (most of my bigger name clients always want timecode).

Funnily enough, what ultimately tipped the scales towards the PR-2 over the Tentacle was the removable batteries. I always carry spare AA batteries in my audio kit, which is one less thing to charge before every shoot as would be the case with the Track-Es.
 
Yeah, that's what I've ended up going with: two PR-2s and three TC-1 timecode boxes (most of my bigger name clients always want timecode).

Funnily enough, what ultimately tipped the scales towards the PR-2 over the Tentacle was the removable batteries. I always carry spare AA batteries in my audio kit, which is one less thing to charge before every shoot as would be the case with the Track-Es.
I can see showing up to a job and realizing they're not charged. Track-e no screen or battery indicator lights on the device. You need usb charger for each unit, Rode and DJI got it right by having a charging station that the devices drop into.
 
I got tired of waiting for the Zax patent to be killed in court and it’s natural death is still a ways off, so I had Trew/Remote Audio build me some custom splitter cables(there was some trial & error and even took Glenn taking a small interest and getting involved to get a working solution) so that I could use my lavs simultaneously with my Lectro belt pack Tx’s and the Sync E’s. It’s not the most elegant of solutions when compared to a single box system(like Zax), but it does work exactly as intended. You have a legitimate wireless system and local TC synced perfect* back-up recording, regardless of the RF environment.

*Perfect as in whatever sound goes into the lav gets recorded.
 
Yeah, that's what I've ended up going with: two PR-2s and three TC-1 timecode boxes (most of my bigger name clients always want timecode).

Funnily enough, what ultimately tipped the scales towards the PR-2 over the Tentacle was the removable batteries. I always carry spare AA batteries in my audio kit, which is one less thing to charge before every shoot as would be the case with the Track-Es.
I don’t think I knew about the PR-2. Looks really good, except that it only accepts TC in via the Diety ecosystem, wirelessly. I’m b**** deep into the Tentacle system.
 
Back
Top