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    #76
    Originally posted by Bobonli View Post
    I need some further clarification:
    Are the detail settings indeed NEGATIVE or is that just a dash in front of the number?

    Thanks again
    Bob
    The setting for factory default is negative 30, ( feedbak please) i believe in the first place, so if you dial it up to 0 you add crispness, that's a no no with ex1/ex3. You can get awful flickering with the detail on. Cool thread btw
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      #77
      Originally posted by Bobonli View Post
      Thanks Andy!
      Yeah what he said... We also have a workflow section to practice on... aja io, mac book pro, EX30, one beyond, P2 Mobile, 2550... etc. etc. for free as well as all cameras set up for a side by side anytime someone wishes to stop by.
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      Gregger Jones

      Production Sales
      630-359-5778
      gregg@abelcine.com

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        #78
        Digging deeper into Picture Profiles

        ok, i've read every post on this thread/sticky and i still don't know everything there is to know about Picture Profiles(PP). I've made a list of questions about settings within the PP and hope that all of you, much more technical savvy individuals can help me out.

        1. Matrix: Level: what does adjusting this do?
        Phase: what does this do?

        2. Color Correction: does anyone use this? if so, how and why?

        3. Detail: I know detail is but i'm unaware of what (level, frequency, crispening, h/v ratio, white limit, black limit, v dtl creation, and knee apt level) are and what they do.

        4. Skin Tone Detail: once again, does anyone use this? if so, how and why?

        5. Gamma: Level: what does changing the level do? i can see on my monitor that adding/increasing + lightens the image and vice versa for decreasing/subtracting -. but what is it actually, technically doing?


        thanks in advance. you guys are great.

        -Mike

        btw: i made my last payment on my camera/package today!!!! what a relief!!!
        Los Angeles, CA USA
        DP/Cam Op
        www.MichaelBMcGee.co

        Comment


          #79
          1. Matrix-Level = adjusts color saturation
          Phase= hue adjustment--rotates through the entire hue range.

          2. Correction: allows you to pick a range of colors and change the hue.

          3. Detail:
          Level: Amount of detail enhancement
          Crispening: increasing value decreases sharpening of textures
          Frequency: controls the 'fatness' of the detail enhancement range (think of 'radius' in PhotoShop Unsharp mask tool)
          H/V ratio allows control over the ratio of sharpening applied in horizontal and vertical direction.
          White Limit/Black Limit: sets a Luma threshold beyond which, no detail is applied. (hint, eliminated black halos around bright highlights when set appropriately)
          Not 100% sure about the last two, V DTL Creation and Knee APT level--I'll have to look them up again.

          4. Skin tone detail: a corellary of the color correction, only replacing hue change with detail change--allows one to pick a range of color (usually skin tone) in which to reduce detail enhancement (sort of 'digital makeup' for smoother faces).

          5. Gama level: changes the shape of the transfer curve for contrast information. Mostly affects a broad range of midtones, but leaves black and bright white unaffected.

          Congrats on paying off your camera. It's always a good feeling to know the payments are behind you!
          Last edited by basspig; 06-15-2009, 12:10 PM.
          Best regards,
          Mark & Mary Ann Weiss
          www.MWHDVideo.com
          HD Video Productions

          Comment


            #80
            thanks Mark. i remember now about hearing what CC does. i believe you can dial in a specific color and make adjustments to that individual color without adjusting the rest of your image colors. hey, in your opinion, what's the big difference between using HiSat and Cinema Matrixes? obviously, the HiSat speaks for itself, but if you were to select Cinema Matrix and bump up the Level would you come closer to the look of a neutral HiSat setting? basically, what do you think Cinema Matrix does to colors. in my own opinion it seems to flatten/;desaturate them. i'm not very tech savvy though, so i'd like to hear what you think.

            -mike
            Los Angeles, CA USA
            DP/Cam Op
            www.MichaelBMcGee.co

            Comment


              #81
              More specifically, color correction allows you to dial in a specific hue AND a tolerance or range of colors to either side of that hue to include in the correction, and then change that range of colors while leaving other hues unaffected.

              HiSat and Cinema may have other differences, but yes, I do note a particular drop in saturation in the reds with cinema matrix, but also a shift in the hue of blues. Baby blue skies shift toward a more violet/purple shade with cinema. Also, I discovered that fire and flames look "CG" in quality, not quite realistic, as I discovered with my footage that I shot of the Shockwave jet-powered truck at an air show last fall.
              Cinema matrix may do other things as well, but I haven't spent the time to look at it on a scope to see what hue ranges it shifts.
              Cinema matrix may have some usefulness in protecting older delivery formats from color bleed, because of that desaturation that goes on. It is desirable to maintain strong greens and skin tones, but roll back saturation on solid reds, like fire engines and red sports cars, which would spill terribly on composite video displays. Of course, cine vs. hisat is a creative choice that a DP has available. Almost TOO much choice, when you get into the various combinations possible with the matrices and various gama curves!
              Best regards,
              Mark & Mary Ann Weiss
              www.MWHDVideo.com
              HD Video Productions

              Comment


                #82
                Originally posted by basspig View Post
                I'm starting a XDCam Picture Profile page on my web site. Direct link:

                http://www.basspig.com/PMW-EX1_PP.htm
                Thanks,

                Im still looking.

                Comment


                  #83
                  Originally posted by basspig View Post
                  5. Gama level: changes the shape of the transfer curve for contrast information. Mostly affects a broad range of midtones, but leaves black and bright white unaffected.

                  are you sure about that? i just checked on my camera shooting at a piece of white tissue paper that was rippled(not evenly lite). i turned on both of my zebras(90 & 70). as i increased (+) the GAMMA Level, CINE 3, it seemed to lower the highlights and bring back detail into those normally blown out areas. vice versa for decreasing (-) Level.
                  Los Angeles, CA USA
                  DP/Cam Op
                  www.MichaelBMcGee.co

                  Comment


                    #84
                    [Please pardon my tardiness in responding to this thread. Yesterday I was in a marathon session to bang out three short-run CD albums, which had me manually assembling, printing, burning, trimming and folding inserts for 70 CD albums. I was using both computers to burn, print CDs and structured my workflow so I always had folding/cutting to do while the workstations were writing CDs and printing liners. Anyway...]

                    Are you relying upon the LCD to make those determinations? I'm convinced that the LCD clips whites at a level below that which the imagers do.
                    Yes, CINE3 does lower the overall upper limit of white, and increasing the Gamma will brighten up the midrange again, however, I do believe that this setup discards the useful info up in the 101-109 IRE range by precompressing it down to the 0-100IRE range.
                    I did some informal testing with a scene that contained some shiny objects that reflected light sources and provided hot spots with a gradient. Adjusting around this scene, I found I could capture the widest range with STD4 and a manual knee adjustment.
                    Now, there seems to be no standard "one setting works all situations" setup, and I'm sure Sony would not include the CINE gammas if they did not have a real, practical value. But in my estimation, I'm not convinced that CINE captures the maximum possible range to the record media. The hot spots in a scene are toned down, but I don't see any additional detail in the gradients that cross from upper greys to super white.
                    Somewhere on the net, I recall that someone did some testing with a scope and a chart and published the waveform steps for each of the 8 gamma settings. That would help to clarify what these curves are doing to the signal, a lot better than relying on the LCD to measure results.
                    Certainly, CINE3 is really good if you are capturing actualities that have to go direct to broadcast, but then there is a STD curve that also limits at 100IRE, which is punchier.
                    In summation, carefully study the camera's response to the types of scenes you are shooting for a given project and choose the curve that looks best, or use a STND4 gamma and create the "look" in post later on, if the luxury of time is available.
                    Best regards,
                    Mark & Mary Ann Weiss
                    www.MWHDVideo.com
                    HD Video Productions

                    Comment


                      #85
                      i was relying just on the LCD itself. just out of curiosity, what would your KNEE settings be on a typical bright/contrasty sunny day? please include Point, Slope, and Knee SAT Level.

                      thanks Mark.
                      Los Angeles, CA USA
                      DP/Cam Op
                      www.MichaelBMcGee.co

                      Comment


                        #86
                        I often keep the knee around 95-100 and the slope in the +60 range.
                        Auto Knee seems to assume a threshold around +93, but you lose some of the super whites. So there are times when either option might be better.
                        I leave the Knee Sat at 50. Too much and you may get some odd transitions in the chroma at the point where knee compression is at. Too little, same thing, but in the direction of monochrome.

                        I did some testing in-studio with a contrasty scene, that including a reflected glare from a desk lamp for the super-white.
                        I found that if I set the knee above 100, manual, I can get IRE 109 on all STD gamma settings, even if the Gain is set to -3dB. If I set the knee to 100 or use auto knee, super white tops at IRE 108.
                        I checked the Cine gammas and they are 104, 96, 103 and 104, respectively 1-4, with gain at -3dB. So that pretty much settles any question as to whether you can get the full dynamic range at -3dB. It appears that you can and that means pushing the noise down by 3dB. Only drawback is you give up some low light sensitivity, and CINE2 gamma curve tops out at 96 IRE.

                        It's good to note that there is good, usable information above IRE100, and with the appropriate tools in an NLE, this range can be remapped to 0-100IRE without truncating the upper end of the whites.
                        Best regards,
                        Mark & Mary Ann Weiss
                        www.MWHDVideo.com
                        HD Video Productions

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Still trying for "film" look

                          Okay, I've had this camera for a few months, and I like it. I've never been much of a monkey wrench with it until now. I shot a short a few weeks ago. I did the whole cine 2 setting, 24p and what not. Didn't look film. At all. Looked like a video trying to be film.

                          I saw another short shot on the same camera that looked totally like film. Looked awesome.

                          What are your recommendations and settings for really getting a true film look, not just a video camera pretending? I've heard the shutter set to 1/48 was supposed to help, but it still doesn't really have a good look.

                          What do you do?
                          Woody C. Harrison
                          Director
                          Woody Harrison Films
                          Austin, Texas

                          Comment


                            #88
                            Don't forget... the "Film Look" is not JUST the camera. That's a start. My "look" is made mostly in Apple's "Color" program. There's where the magic for me takes place.

                            Comment


                              #89
                              One of the things that I, personally, associate with 'filmic look' is slow, sweeping pans, and jib & dolly shots where the camera just seems to float over the scene with transparent smoothness. Frenetic hand held movements just scream 'video' to me.

                              Framerate
                              Dynamic range
                              Gamma curve
                              Color rendering
                              Grain structure

                              are some of the attributes we associate with film.
                              Best regards,
                              Mark & Mary Ann Weiss
                              www.MWHDVideo.com
                              HD Video Productions

                              Comment


                                #90
                                Ah yes... Correct you are Mark! You're now heading to "composition" as a filmic tool. The slow subtle camera moves like smooth push-ins, pull-outs, (Not Zooms) , or tracking with the actors. I've really hate the absolutely over used "shakey camera" style that tries to shout "Oh, I'm so cool".

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