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Sony a7 IV

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    #31
    Haha, wow. You’re a great contributor to this site.

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      #32
      Jonpais, why did you say that the a7iv has worse color?
      www.VideoAbe.com

      "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant." -Harvey

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        #33
        Originally posted by ahalpert View Post
        Jonpais, why did you say that the a7iv has worse color?
        IIRC, ProAv mentioned something of that nature. No one else has.

        The guy from Three Blind Mice said they're selling their A7SIII and buying A7IV. Whenever it becomes available.

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          #34
          Originally posted by DLD View Post

          IIRC, ProAv mentioned something of that nature. No one else has.

          The guy from Three Blind Mice said they're selling their A7SIII and buying A7IV. Whenever it becomes available.
          Correction: CVP's comparisons between the a7s III and the a7 IV reveal differences in handling of under- and overexposure (latitude), as well as color differences, disparities in tonality and dissimilarities in exposure that they couldn't account for.

          My original post is about the suitability of the a7 IV as a second body to my a7s III, and while variations in color can be dealt with in post, exposure differences would be a hassle.

          If I'm not mistaken, Hugh is both a photographer and filmmaker, so it makes sense to pick up a camera with more megapixels.
          Last edited by jonpais; 10-22-2021, 09:06 PM.

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            #35
            Originally posted by jonpais View Post
            Download a7s III ProRes RAW HQ HDR 4.2K 23.976 sample footage: https://www.mediafire.com/file/nsmxj...23.97.mov/file
            Thank you for sharing jonpais.
            10% more than internal resolution.
            playback is good
            i graded with premiere and it is nice after apply -1.7 in exposition (ETTR) with gamut color s-gamut3.ciné/s-log3. your iso was 640 ? it is very clean.
            https://vimeo.com/rudlaga

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              #36
              Originally posted by rudo_fr View Post

              Thank you for sharing jonpais.
              10% more than internal resolution.
              playback is good
              i graded with premiere and it is nice after apply -1.7 in exposition (ETTR) with gamut color s-gamut3.ciné/s-log3. your iso was 640 ? it is very clean.
              My pleasure! I try to shoot at around +1.7 ETTR. And ISO was 640. I've got one more download to share this evening (Vietnam time).

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                #37
                Originally posted by DLD View Post
                FWIW, A7III is made in China. A7SIII in Thailand. A1 in Japan.

                Draw your own conclusions.
                From where your A7S iii cams come from I think?

                Chris Young

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                  #38
                  The focus breathing compensation in the a7 IV is unreal and I've never said this before, but I hope they add it to the a1 and a7s III in a firmware update!

                  At the same time, cropping in on the 12 megapixel sensor might degrade the image too much - and it's unclear whether the feature works with ProRes RAW.
                  Last edited by jonpais; 10-24-2021, 02:09 AM.

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                    #39
                    I think that's a really cool feature although it also means that they're variably cropping in on your lens. Which is probably worth it to eliminate breathing. But nevertheless it's a bit of a bummer, especially since I find that a lot of the "character" of a lens inhabits the periphery
                    www.VideoAbe.com

                    "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant." -Harvey

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                      #40
                      Originally posted by cyvideo View Post
                      From where your A7S iii cams come from I think? ...
                      A few years ago, there was a kerfuffle between the Japanese and the Chinese - one of many, to be sure - after which the Japanese government upped its incentives to the manufacturers. But many of them still went to the lower cost locales - Vietnam (Olympus) and Thailand (Nikon, Sony). In fact, Nikon is about to close its old Tokyo plant and move all of its production to Thailand. Labor costs seem to be fairly even, however,

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                        #41
                        Originally posted by DLD View Post

                        A few years ago, there was a kerfuffle between the Japanese and the Chinese - one of many, to be sure - after which the Japanese government upped its incentives to the manufacturers. But many of them still went to the lower cost locales - Vietnam (Olympus) and Thailand (Nikon, Sony). In fact, Nikon is about to close its old Tokyo plant and move all of its production to Thailand. Labor costs seem to be fairly even, however,
                        Manufacturers must diversify production nowadays. First, there were the regional disasters, then the tariffs, then the pandemic and now the post-pandemic issues. Diversification helps to mitigate those issues.

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                          #42
                          The lack of stacked sensor is probably responsible for the abysmal rolling shutter performance - a massive 26ms at 4K 24p!
                          Last edited by jonpais; 10-24-2021, 12:51 AM.

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                            #43
                            Here's another ProRes RAW HQ HDR 4.2K 23.976 download if you'd like to see how the a7s III handles in post.

                            Last edited by jonpais; 10-24-2021, 01:07 AM.

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                              #44
                              Originally posted by ahalpert View Post
                              I think that's a really cool feature although it also means that they're variably cropping in on your lens. Which is probably worth it to eliminate breathing. But nevertheless, it's a bit of a bummer, especially since I find that a lot of the "character" of a lens inhabits the periphery
                              BREATHING! Breathing, breathing, breathing. That's why I love to use manual cine designed glass. Very minimal breathing. Something still camera glass has never really had to be bothered with until lots of people started to use still camera glass for the moving image. Lack of breathing is especially important on zooms where breathing has to be controlled at all lengths. I trained in film on film glass and came to accept that that was how a good lens behaved. It didn't "zoom" when focused.

                              The fact that you have plenty of pixel real estate on the A7 iv I think lets you can get away with the slight crop the "de-breathing" function takes without taking too much of a hit in overall resolution.

                              Resolution, true resolution, well that's another thing altogether, isn't it? A 4096 sensor like the FS7 after a Demosaicing resolution loss of 20% is really only around 3.28K. Whereas the loss on the A7 iv with 7008-pixel sensor after Demosaicing still leaves you 5.6K resolution to be oversampled to UHD. What's the old saying "8K for the best 4K, 4K for the best 2K".

                              I only ever really shoot mainly 50p HD or 50p UHD/4K so the A7 iv crop would work for me with manual S35 glass where breathing isn't an issue. Even when using FF glass that doesn't breathe. I often used the Angenieux/Tokina FF zooms which exhibit virtually zero breathing. Even using them at times with a speed booster in APSC crop mode produced some very decent "breathless" results on previous FF sensors. Having the added benefit of an extra stop of light gain and an extra stop of shallower DOF when needed was an added side bonus. Shot a lot of interview material that way with great results.

                              The A7 iv after a 20% Demosaicing loss from its 4.6 crop mode (4672 pixels) still produces a sub 4K resolution of 3.73K. Having lived with the 3.2K "pseudo 4K" from the FS7 for a number of years I don't see that being a real concern for my work. On the rolling shutter side of things, I've lived with the 14msec rolling shutter of the FS7 with no great impact on my shooting so an APSC crop rolling shutter in 50/60p on an A7 iv of 12.8msec is something I can live with.

                              Well, the proof is in the pudding as they say. I'll find out sooner or later no doubt as the order is in for one.

                              Chris Young

                              Want good old lack of breathing? Maybe chase one of these down. If you do check the centring is correct. Old Angenieux designed Tokina 28-70mm F/2.6-2.8 or even the F/2.8. Marked differently for different markets but exactly the same lens. Either a Mark I or II. Don't touch any other models as they do not utilize the Angenieux parfocal breathless design. Speed boosted becomes an F2 100% parfocal, constant aperture lens in true cine-style. Nice colors, good bokeh and vintage flares if you like that kind of thing


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                                #45
                                I watched the CVP video and the color does not look that different but it is difficult to judge with the exposure difference. Maybe the exposure deficit can be fixed before production samples hit the streets. Sony gave pretty much everything us video folks wanted at this price point. If they can throw in the external RAW I think it would be a nice compliment to an A7sIII as the 2nd camera, not a total equal. The skin tones for the different cameras are all over the place in that video. I also noticed the huge detail in the A7IV compared to the R6 when they were both briefly on the screen at the same time with the color charts. The Sony probably has too much detail for flattering skin visuals. I look forward to seeing more footage and photo results.

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