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Color Matching FX6 with FX9 (and FS7)

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    #16
    Originally posted by JimmyMcV View Post

    So it sounds like it shouldn't be a big deal. I don't have a scope box but it sounds like we should just put the camera next to each other and white balance off the same card (that's what you mean by unified white balance?).
    Yes, when we keep the white card (or preferably grey scale) in the same position and get the cameras to white balance from basically the same position it gets us off to a decent start. 10% of the work gets you 90% of your match. The final 10% of the matching can take the other 90% of the work. But for that part we really need to look at a grey scale and color chart with a decent waveform and vectorscope - and an easy way of switching between sources. I've been using Scopebox for a while to provide a decent size waveform and vectorscope, so I'm used to it. There are probably other options out there -- but IMHO trying to get any kind of color match for a live switch without using scopes for the final steps is a bad idea. I also always keep a decimator quad splitter in my bag - which can be used to view 4 sources simultaneously as well as switch between sources.
    But remember, I'm trying to get the cameras to match live -- if you're doing your color in post give Grug's recommended Cinematch a try.

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      #17
      Originally posted by Grug View Post
      Shoot charts beforehand, so you can build a transform to match them. That's the proper way to do it.

      That aside, I'd suggest running (not walking) to your local internet browser and purchasing a copy of Cinematch regardless. It just takes all of the stress out of shooting disparate cameras.

      A few clicks and you're within striking distance of your A-camera. And a few small manual tweaks beyond that, will get you close-enough to perceptually-indistinguishable. I just had a shoot yesteday with a talking head element, and had to use one of my little Fuji XT3s alongside my FX6 as a B-cam. Trying to match the Fuji's to Sony colour science manually is absoltely brutal (LOTS of tiny hue adjustment all along the colour spectrum). But with Cinematch, it really becomes fairly painless.

      Highly recommended.

      ​​

      Hey Grug, I just wanted to say that I really liked your lighting and color in your shared screen grabs. I especially like how natural and exposed the window blinds are. Great work!

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        #18
        Originally posted by OnSet View Post


        But remember, I'm trying to get the cameras to match live -- if you're doing your color in post give Grug's recommended Cinematch a try.
        Ok, I'll try Cinematch!

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          #19
          Originally posted by scorsesefan View Post

          Where did you order your fx6? Mine has been on order at BH for almost 2 mos and I still haven't received it. It's in stock at Adorama, which is kind of annoying and confusing...
          the fx3 came into stock briefly at adorama and pictureline (just the stores I know about) at the end of september, but I never saw it listed in stock at b&h. maybe b&h is in the dog house with sony. or they're hopelessly swamped with orders. but maybe keep an eye on other retailers and just cancel at b&h if you snag one elsewhere?
          www.VideoAbe.com

          "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant." -Harvey

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            #20
            Thanks, Abe. Will your fs7 only come out for higher end client work now that you have the FX3/A7SIII combo?

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              #21
              Originally posted by scorsesefan View Post
              Thanks, Abe. Will your fs7 only come out for higher end client work now that you have the FX3/A7SIII combo?
              Nothing is really going to change. I only use my FS7 for interviews and generally shoots that expect a "real" camera. Which are all sort of my higher end work, but not always. And for gimbal-only stuff, i don't use it. For weddings I don't use it. For interviews and things that I produce myself, I don't use it or it's a B cam. (So, now it would become a C cam for that stuff and it should be great to have matching A/B cameras for that sort of thing, but matching color was not the primary reason I bought it)
              Last edited by ahalpert; 10-04-2021, 07:21 PM.
              www.VideoAbe.com

              "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant." -Harvey

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                #22
                Originally posted by OnSet View Post
                But remember, I'm trying to get the cameras to match live -- if you're doing your color in post give Grug's recommended Cinematch a try.
                In theory, if you got a good-enough match from Cinematch (or cinematch + a few tweaks) in Davinci. You could combine it with a LUT you like (S709 or Arri Rec709 for example), and then export those corrections as LUTs that could be fed into the cameras you're looking to match to your main camera. You'd then have the corrected and Rec709'd images all feeding out of the SDIs, and could use that for matched live imagery.
                DREAMSMITHS | SHOWREEL | INSTAGRAM
                www.dreamsmiths.com.au

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by Grug View Post

                  In theory, if you got a good-enough match from Cinematch (or cinematch + a few tweaks) in Davinci. You could combine it with a LUT you like (S709 or Arri Rec709 for example), and then export those corrections as LUTs that could be fed into the cameras you're looking to match to your main camera. You'd then have the corrected and Rec709'd images all feeding out of the SDIs, and could use that for matched live imagery.
                  Thanks Grug,
                  You're making me want to try this.
                  Do you ever do this on set? - and if so, how much time would you estimate (budget) per camera?
                  (Between production-owned cameras, rental cameras and operators bringing their own cameras on the shoot day, there's a low likelihood of having the cameras to do this in advance for many shoots.)

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by OnSet View Post

                    Thanks Grug,
                    You're making me want to try this.
                    Do you ever do this on set? - and if so, how much time would you estimate (budget) per camera?
                    (Between production-owned cameras, rental cameras and operators bringing their own cameras on the shoot day, there's a low likelihood of having the cameras to do this in advance for many shoots.)
                    No, I’ve never bothered with it myself (most of what I shoot we’re grading in post) and I tend not to stress about on-set monitoring accuracy, because you’re rarely viewing in ideal conditions anyway.

                    Plus the few live shoots I work on, are generally with matched cameras Venice or F55s, and we’ll have a CCU operator for those.

                    But making the tranform LUTs in Resolve would only take a few minutes, so it’s really just the LUT transfer process for each camera that you’d need to be up-to-date on.
                    DREAMSMITHS | SHOWREEL | INSTAGRAM
                    www.dreamsmiths.com.au

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                      #25
                      I currently own a Sony FS7 and have matched it to a Sony A7Sii for live switching. I've done this by tweaking one of the A7Sii's picture profiles to match the FS7 when in HG2 mode. Now I'm thinking of upgrading my A7Sii to an FX3. Has anyone successfully matched the Sony FS7 and FX3 in camera? Are there any concerns with matching these two cameras? Please note that I wouldn't be shooting in S-Log, since I'm live switching.

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                        #26
                        Thanks for all the input.

                        My shoot is complete. Now the color-correcting begins. We shot with the FX6 and FX9 in CineEI Slog3.

                        We color-balanced at the same time off a grey card and then we shot the same color chart in the same position.

                        Unfortunately, I screwed up my white balance 5 minutes into the shoot. This is only my second shoot with this cam, folks. I pressed the wrong button!

                        I meant to press the "push auto" button to temporarily bring in autofocus and instead I pushed the button below it for Auto White Balance. And then in my panic I didn't hit "cancel." 20 seconds later, not knowing any way to get back to what I had -- it would have been nice to have an UNDO button -- I basically just dialed in the white balance to about the same temperature number.
                        But it doesn't look the same, folks. I must say, the footage before the white balance eff-up looks GORGEOUS! So my first task is to try to color correct to get back to how it looked before the mishap.

                        How would you go about doing - trying to match the image to myself?
                        Should I try this Cinematch?

                        I haven't tried to see what, if any, difference there is between the FX6 and FX9 footage. First I just want to color correct my FX6. Because if I can get it looking as good as it did before my White Balance fat finger f*&%-up, this is going to be easy because it looked great!

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