The Sony ILME-FX6V Owners Club

[J.Brown]

I'm sorry you can't tell the difference between AF tracking and face/eye tracking but I know the difference and I think it would really add to the great focus system that's in the FX6.

[Doug Jensen]

I'm sorry you can't tell the difference between AF tracking and face/eye tracking but I know the difference and I think it would really add to the great focus system that's in the FX6.

I'm sorry you can't understand that Face/Eye tracking is just a subset of AF tracking. There are many kinds of AF tracking, of which Face/Eye and Touch Tracking are just two ot them. That is why it is important to speak precisely so that others can understand whatever point you are trying to make. I am not a mind reader. Don't blame me if you can't express yourself properly. All I did was ask for clarification after your first post and then you try to tell me I don't know Sony's lingo -- lingo that it turns out does not even exist. Stop digging a hole and move on.

[ahalpert]

This seems like a silly dispute. Everyone knows what you're both talking about and nobody cares what the lingo is or who had it correct.

Doug - I was thinking apropos of our previous conversation about touch tracking that it's most useful perhaps when you only have part of the subject in focus. So, shooting a detail or someone's outfit at close range and only their shoulder is in sharp focus (or maybe you want their collar or their far shoulder.) Sort of like how eye AF zeroes in on the eye itself rather than the part of the human in the center of the frame or their closest edge or whatever. I'm not sure if the FX6 will lock onto a detail like that if you initiate tracking with the box pointed at it. But maybe it does? I had a shot in the back of my mind to post to your non-human thread but haven't gotten around to it.

Also very useful for tracking one thing and then racking to another thing mid-shot and tracking that. Which is all very useful on gimbal at least

[J.Brown]

You really don't use the right words Doug and your are wrong. For instance you wrote "My FX6 already does a great job of tracking in real time" Yes it tracks ATW but not AF. If you would have read the manual that comes with the FX6 you would have known this but obviously you haven't read it close enough. Nowhere does Sony mention AF tracking or focus tracking in the manual because there's no AF tracking. Sure there's phase/contrast AF and there's face/eye detection (which could be interpret like face/eye tracking) but nothing is mention about AF or focus tracking so is your FX6 a magical one that features things all other FX6 doesn't? I think not. It's just you don't know what you are talking about.

So to clear things. There's no AF or focus tracking in the FX6 as of now. Face/eye detection yes but no real-time AF tracking. All according to the Sony FX6 user manual, but maybe you consider it to be wrong?

[stewhem]

Here we go again. Sigh.

[chad whelan]

Here we go again. Sigh.

Yep. Again

[Doug Jensen]

You really don't use the right words Doug and your are wrong. For instance you wrote "My FX6 already does a great job of tracking in real time" Yes it tracks ATW but not AF.

Yeah here we go again.
I never said my FX6 does a great job of tracking ATW, so don't put words in my mouth that I never said. Where do you get this crap? ATW sucks.
As for AF tracking, the FX6 already offers several modes for AF tracking. You hope that it gets another one, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have other types of AF tracking already. There are many types of AF tracking, if you don't get it by now, there is nothing more I can say so I won't waste my time trying to explain again. This all began because you were not clear and then take it as an insult that anyone would dare ask for clarification. Hopefully I will not have to post again on this topic, but I will if neessary. End it.

[Doug Jensen]

Doug - I was thinking apropos of our previous conversation about touch tracking that it's most useful perhaps when you only have part of the subject in focus. So, shooting a detail or someone's outfit at close range and only their shoulder is in sharp focus (or maybe you want their collar or their far shoulder.) Sort of like how eye AF zeroes in on the eye itself rather than the part of the human in the center of the frame or their closest edge or whatever. I'm not sure if the FX6 will lock onto a detail like that if you initiate tracking with the box pointed at it. But maybe it does? I had a shot in the back of my mind to post to your non-human thread but haven't gotten around to it.Also very useful for tracking one thing and then racking to another thing mid-shot and tracking that. Which is all very useful on gimbal at least

Abe, I agree with all that and I have the same questions about what exactly the new focus mode (if there is one) will lock onto. Just to be clear, I am not at all against adding new focus modes or any other features to the FX6. But in the case of this one, it is not something that interests me personally because it will probably require a touchscreen and I don't use touchscreens. But for other people it might be just what they need. Use it if you like it, and don't use it you don't. Simple as that.

[ahalpert]

right - not very useful when looking through an evf on tripod. on the ronin-s, I like to have my left hand on my side handle for added stability and weight distribution. but when I was pulling focus manually (as I used to do exclusively), then I had to have that hand glued to the focus wheel. so, I'm not making an operational compromise by using that hand to tap a touchscreen within reach of my left arm (in this case, a smartphone strapped to my right wrist controlling the camera via wifi)

[did]

Whatever the name you use to describe it, the ability to lock the AF in spot mode on an object (other than an eye) so that it can be tracked if it moves in the field does not work at all and even does not exist on the FX6. This feature exists on A7xx still cameras, on the FX3 and will exist on the FX9.
I agree that it would be very useful with a Ronin
What's fun is that this feature is implemented by DJI on the RS2, they call it active track. But since they are not able to implement the interface with the FX6 it can not be used with the FX6.
And as I said before, this feature can be used without the touchscreen you just need a button to lock the AF on the selected object at the right time. It's the way I use my A7R4 most of the time

[did]

Does not means that AF tracking does not work. If you put the AF window in "wide", i.e. to track an airplane, a bird, a race car or a runner the AF does a quite good job and is able to detect the object that is supposed to be of interest

[OnSet]

After several days of shooting with a combination of several (4 - 6) FX6 and FX9 cameras (and only 2 or 3 operators - to minimize people on set and maintain social distancing) I had gotten to the point of trusting and relying on the eye auto-focus as our subjects moved around. Then I ran into an issue. For one presentation the subject had a powerpoint on a large screen behind him. No problem as long as there were graphs and text on the screen. But when the screen image switched to photos the cameras that saw the screen in their shots decided to change focus to the faces on the screen rather than the presenter. Of course we were relying on autofocus since each operator was walking back and forth between two cameras (and it was almost impossible to get to the focus ring on the cameras inside teleprompter hoods.)

We had to pause and re-start the presentation after turning off the AF and increasing EI/DOF of the wider cameras to hopefully keep our talent in focus on the wider shots, so we could concentrate of manually pulling focus on the tight ones.

What I'm asking is whether there would have been a better approach - a different AF setting for the cameras?

[NorBro]

I'm assuming you tried the shift sensitivity setting in the camera because that's what it was made for...to keep what's in focus and not let other objects change it or distract it. In your case it should be set to the locked on mode.

In the future, computers (cameras) will scan faces which you'll be able to choose to lock on to (can do this now to some degree with some cameras).

Although a rare occurrence in an interview setting, this setting should prevent the system from confusing itself with printed faces in the background or any crew walking on set to fix something mid-roll, etc.

[OnSet]

Plus a couple more factors I should have mentioned --

Presenters wearing glasses that at some times pick up light reflections/glare - thereby obscuring their eyes.
Also the tendency to sometimes turn away from camera to refer to something (someone) on the screen behind them...

[Doug Jensen]

What I'm asking is whether there would have been a better approach - a different AF setting for the cameras?

You can register a Priority face so the camera will track that face whenever it is in frame and ignore other faces. Even if the face leaves the frame and returns later the camera will recognize that it has priority. Use the joystick to put the orange cursor under the face you want to track and then select it. The face with a double white box around it is the registered face.

https://vimeo.com/ondemand/fx6