Catalyst Browse color too saturated?

[LennyLevy]

I've noticed that when importing Slog3 footage shot in a Sony Fx9 and applying an Fs709 LUT it looks overly saturated on my Mac screen and much less saturated that it does on my Flanders monitor connected by an UltraStudio mini monitor. I think my settings are correct , and though I can't recall when I last upgraded my CB software it seems to me that this was not always the case. When I use Resolve I have my timeline settings for 709-A and that gives me a pretty close match with my Flanders.
Anyone else notice this? Or have settings that work correctly?

[Doug Jensen]

If the output to the Flanders looks okay, what difference does it make how it looks on the Mac? Sounds like a calibration issue with your Mac, but again, what difference does it make?

[LennyLevy]

I like to have to have everything looking similar. Makes me feel more confident about the whole workflow. Truth is i don't color grade in CB , but I do frequently show footage on it to a client after after shooting, tell my clients to they can use it to look at XAVC footage, or use it to double check what i just shot. Its disconcerting to see it look way off. I generally hand off the Log footage shooting directly to the client rather than grading it first. Don't want them confused.
Actually though I haven't directly compared them it seems to me that maybe the Flanders coming out of CB looks a little flatter than what comes from Resolve.

Moreover in principle I just want to know what's going on . Color is a tricky business with different standards for Mac , PC , internet , Youtube and 709 monitors (let alone HDR) + color tagging etc and having standards match up correctly is important . Hard enough grading for the web in Resolve and not having color look different than my monitor, but at least there been a lot written about it so I have it down now .... mostly.

[drboffa]

I find that CB makes my slog3 footage look pretty bad—I use it for copying footage and making proxies, but that's it. The color management in it seems terrible, unless you're looking at S-Cinetone stuff.

This is when viewing it on my MacBook Pro or an Asus monitor (through the MBP). I've never viewed it on a Flanders (I wish!).

[LennyLevy]

To me its all over the place .Some 709 footage looks OK, some is oversaturated. , but whatever I see on my Mac always is more saturated than what I'm seeing on my Flanders. Seems like Sony should add some setup alternatives - Video or Data mode, some way to deal with color tags, PC or Mac etc.


In the old days Sony encouraged user feedback through US reps and for a while even had a User discussion board. I suspect too much response from users freaked them out though and they fired the reps, closed down the boards and along with it any apparent interest in Customer feedback. Thank god we still have Alister Chapman at least letting us about glitches and issues now and then . Otherwise we're just in the dark. Unfortunate. I don't have the slightest idea where to send complaints or make suggestions re: Catalyst Bowse .

[Doug Jensen]

Lenny, I prefer to view clean S-LOG in CB and never apply any LUTs or corrections that would modify the look. However, your post had me wondering if I could reproduce your problem, so I started experimenting with the settings. I can report that I cannot recreate your problem. When I apply a Look Profile in CB to S-LOG3.cine footage from my FX6 and Z750, I am actually really surprised how well my monitors match. It's not perfect, but pretty close, and I haven't even put any effort into matching them.

I don't think you would have started this thread if you were seeing what I'm seeing. Certainly, a client wouldn't notice the difference, so I'm assuming something is wrong with your setup. Whatever issue you are seeing --- it is not Sony's problem.


My setup:
2018 MacBook Pro running 12.4 (Graphics: Radeon Pro Vega 30 4GB)
Catalyst Browse version: 2022.1.0550
Blackmagic UltraStudio 4K
Sony 17" OLED being fed 1080p via SDI
Sony 42" Bravia being fed 1080p vis HDMI

[Doug Jensen]

Color is a tricky business with different standards for Mac , PC , internet , Youtube and 709 monitors (let alone HDR) + color tagging etc and having standards match up correctly is important .

None of those displays matters except what you see from you UltraStudio to Flanders (assuming everything has been setup and calibrated properly. IGNORE ALL THE REST. That's why you have the Flanders in the first place. And once the video leaves post, you have no control over how it will look elsewhere. Just accept it and know that it looked the way you wanted it when it left your computer.

[LennyLevy]

"And once the video leaves post, you have no control over how it will look elsewhere. Just accept it and know that it looked the way you wanted it when it left your computer. "

This I disagree with entirely as there are timeline & exports settings in Resolve that will make sure what you export to Youtube/Vimeo will match what's on your monitor ( Flanders) if I set those wrong what goes will be flat . Likewise getting your settings (mainly video vs data ) right when you import is vital ( though in most case - but not all - "Auto" will handle it.)

I am intrigued by your experience with CB and Slog though - that's why I posted in the first place. Next post I will write down exactly what I did and see if your process/settings are different . i hope I am doing something wrong.

[LennyLevy]

Destination Folder
Source metadata:
Color Space: S-Gamut3.Cine/S-Log3

Inspector
Color Space:
S-Gamut3.Cine/S-Log3
Log
Rec709
Rec709

Source Settings: either
Metadata or Manual

LOOK
Lut Mode: manual
convert to: S-Gamut3.Cine/S-Log3
Look Profile : s709

Options
Color mangement:
Working color space:
Log
Preview Color Space:
Rec 709

Ext monitor Color Space
Rec 709

[Doug Jensen]

[I] This I disagree with entirely as there are timeline & exports settings in Resolve that will make sure what you export to Youtube/Vimeo will match what's on your monitor ( Flanders) if I set those wrong what goes will be flat . Likewise getting your settings (mainly video vs data ) right when you import is vital ( though in most case - but not all - "Auto" will handle it.).

You miss my point. Obviously YOU have full control over the export settings, as does everyone else who uses Resolve. But you have no control over how I watch it. What if I like to watch YouTube with my television set to "Vivid", "Warm" white balance, crushed black levels, and with motion-flow cranked to the max? Nothing you can do about that.

[LennyLevy]

Well of course that's true but it doesn't absolve me from posting it it properly. At least i don't want it to look wrong after just coloring it on a computer that matched my monitor. Al,l I want is a leg up!. Us old guys all remember bringing our DVD's with demo reels to clients offices and watching in abject terror as they played them on their horribly misadjusted TVs. I used to bring an awful little monitor to coloring sessions back then just to make sure dark scenes wouldn't get completely destroyed by a PoS TV. I've noticed how people who have their huge expensive TV's wildly misadjusted (yes always vivid, saturated and warm ) go crazy if you try to help them out by making it look like a real movie. "No don't touch it - that's how we like it !". That's how most people see the academy award winner for best cinematography . Oy - What a career to have . Its like a museum used black lights for their Rembrandts.

Anyway - do my settings match yours?

[Doug Jensen]

Anyway - do my settings match yours?

As far as I can see, yes. Everything matches.

You say it is your Mac's monitor that looks bad, right? Then that's where you should be looking for a solution. How have you calibrated it or set it up?

[LennyLevy]

I hate the fact that at least as far as I know the Mac monitors can't be set up with a probe and controls that make sense. instead they only have those weird perceptual adjustments. i haven't done those in awhile so perhaps I should try them again . Are you on a Mac or PC . If there is any way to uae a probe op meter with Macs please let me know - anyone?

[Doug Jensen]

I'm on a couple of MacBook Pros but I calibrate manually because I don't care too much about accuracy. I'm actually surprised they look as good as they do. There is nothing I view on my Mac monitor that matters to me, as long as it is in the ballpark. That's why I have the UltraStudio 4K, so know exactly what I am looking at on a real video monitor being fed a real video signal.

BTW, you're welcome.

[LennyLevy]

On a laptop its impossible to have any reliable setup because just the angle of the screen completely changes the contrast and therefore the apparent saturation as well. I'm using a big stable 27" iMac so its much easier to see more objectively how something looks . I sometimes will look at trailers for major movies and figure if those look good on my monitor that people with plenty of resources have figured out the proper settings. So if my videos on the web for example look much flatter (usually the problem) then I know something is wrong . Of course you're right that you can't control anyone else's TV .
Years ago when Panavision was dipping its foot into video cameras they invited the ASC to a demonstration . Laslo Kovacs famously stood up and announced "when you can make 2 of these monitors look the same give me a call" and he walked out .

BTW - You're welcome as well, and Thanks.