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  • Mavoz
    replied
    Originally posted by NorBro View Post
    With that said, I think you should go for the GH5 because it offers much more than the Pocket and it's going to be more valuable than only the 20% of increased IQ you'd be getting with the BMs.

    Blackmagic Pockets are mostly filmmaking cameras for more experienced videographers/cinematographers who have control of their environments.

    Thanks NorBro....much appreciated...that was my thinking too...while the BM is technically IQ better...just the general useability factor is going to be way more handy...

    Even just the simple in built Image stabilisation is a big selling point.. thank you for all your time and interest...sorry if I've run around in circles a bit...but appreciate all your advice!! Thank you!


    Leave a comment:


  • NorBro
    replied
    The AF is debatable because like a lot of subjects that are debatable, opinions are formed from user error or incompetence (or ulterior motives).

    I didn't read the entire article but I saw the part that said: "The autofocus, to put it simply, is temperamental."

    And that's how I similarly used to describe it a few years ago when I told people to try a "patience test" and let the camera record a human sitting down for 5-10 minutes and see how it behaves in post when you've zoomed in (you'll see random twitching and hunting), but now I've just been calling it 'unusable' because they haven't fixed it and likely won't fix it if you believe Keiretsu exists.

    With that said, I think you should go for the GH5 because it offers much more than the Pocket and it's going to be more valuable than only the 20% of increased IQ you'd be getting with the BMs.

    Blackmagic Pockets are mostly filmmaking cameras for more experienced videographers/cinematographers who have control of their environments.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mavoz
    replied
    Originally posted by NorBro View Post
    You're going to learn quickly that's not how you use AF...it's going to continuously fail on you because you're setting it up for failure like that.

    I'm starting to sound like a broken record with the recommendations, which I'm not sure you're actually reading or the various provided information, so maybe it's best if you have your own learning experiences with whatever you choose and see what turns out to be the best fit for you.
    Thanks Nor Bro...actually went back through the whole thread ..thank you..have appreciated all the comments and suggestions...and think I understand most of the points now...

    Our decision (along with tech guy here) is this: (and hope this matches with what you were thinking Nor Bro)

    1) General Purpose 'A Camera'...traditional form factor...Panasonic AG-UX180....(SDI option for future).....a standard big Zoom...manual controls etc...

    2.) Second camera either a Black Magic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K (or Pro) with our existing EOS lenses....OR a Panasonic GH5...12-60 3.5-5.6mm

    (I can see the IQ might cause a bit of incompatibility...but I think in our context isn't such an issue..)


    For just general purpose filming...I'm thinking the GH5 now?


    The GH5 has internal image stabilisation...so hand held situations is a lot better:

    GH5 is easier to use...'more reliable out of the box'

    GH5 takes a lot better photos...

    GH5 better battery life..

    GH5 with XLR hot shoe adaptor..easier audio monitoring.

    GH5 Auto focus...this sounds like it is 'debatable!' as to whether it is useful/needed or effective...or terrible...

    https://www.premiumbeat.com/blog/sol...gh5-autofocus/


    Does anyone have any thoughts on a Panasonic GH5 or Blackmagic for a backup camera for multi use situations?

    ...run and gun filming...B Camera for stage events....interviews with microphone...

    Thanks for all the assistance NorBro and others...pretty much locked in now..just have to decide something....and go with it!


    Leave a comment:


  • NorBro
    replied
    You're going to learn quickly that's not how you use AF...it's going to continuously fail on you because you're setting it up for failure like that.

    I'm starting to sound like a broken record with the recommendations, which I'm not sure you're actually reading or the various provided information, so maybe it's best if you have your own learning experiences with whatever you choose and see what turns out to be the best fit for you.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mavoz
    replied
    Originally posted by NorBro View Post
    Only push AF, no useable continuous AF - but other than that it is a tried and true workhouse.



    But do you really need AF for the stage? Most professionals would focus once and leave it on manual. Sometimes there are trickier situations with larger sensors and fast lenses, but f/4-ish with a wider lens and a small chip would have 90% of your area in focus.
    Thanks Nor Bro and Peter...definetely want auto focus for kids just pointing a cam at stage...(with fast moving kids across stages...auto focus has it's place I think even for me)

    We'll get one 'normal' video camera like a Sony NX100

    https://www.digitalcamerawarehouse.c...xcam-camcorder

    But for the second camera...does anyone have any thoughts on either:

    A.) Panasonic GH5 mkii with optional XLR adaptor

    B.) Black magic Studio Pro 6K

    Am starting to lean towards the Panasonic GH5 mkii with one of the 'kit' lenses:
    https://www.camerahouse.com.au/panas...-system-camera

    I believe this does actually have auto focus..and then the XLR inputs with the :

    https://www.panasonic.com/au/consume...dmw-xlr1e.html

    Would you go GH5 mkii with Panasonic Lens...or Blackmagic in our context??

    Thanks! Nearly done!


    Leave a comment:


  • NorBro
    replied
    Only push AF, no useable continuous AF - but other than that it is a tried and true workhouse.



    But do you really need AF for the stage? Most professionals would focus once and leave it on manual. Sometimes there are trickier situations with larger sensors and fast lenses, but f/4-ish with a wider lens and a small chip would have 90% of your area in focus.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mavoz
    replied
    Ok ..another contender.. What about a Panasonic Gh5 with the Xlr adaptor??

    Autofocus Good audio monitoring
    Better image quality than an Xa50?

    Other than a non normal eng camera form factor... What negatives to this?

    It certainly seems like it might be a better option than the Black magics?

    Leave a comment:


  • Mavoz
    replied
    Thanks again...I was thinking we'd just set the cameras to 1080p...4K is just a nuisance for our workflow...and certainly don't want massive files...but the lack of good auto focus is a factor...

    Today I used our Canon XA30 on a live stream...it did the job..but the picture quality was really bad...very fake looking colours...might have to see if I can tweak it somehow...

    also the tiny audio level controls were very fiddly...

    But it did do the job..the auto focus actually worked well....and I could get audio into the camera...

    just sent the audio from the mixing desk to my Mix Pre...then via a Rode Wireless transmitter straight to the camera...30 metres near the front of the room...certainly way better audio than straight out of the camera...

    On Monday for a graduation we'll try our existing 80d's as a B camera..but have to run that in manual focus to deal with the non clean HDMI...

    We're continuing to look into what cameras might do the job in that $3 to $6K range...

    Thanks!


    Leave a comment:


  • NorBro
    replied
    He could record ProRes LT in any of them (external recorder for the studios), and since he's interested in HD, the space for it would actually be less than the 100mbps available in most of today's consumer/prosumer 4K cameras...so it would ironically still work out in his favor and the files would be 10-bit.

    In short, file sizes are rarely worried about because of the many choices the cameras provide you (including compressed RAW options).

    Leave a comment:


  • Peter C.
    replied
    Originally posted by Mavoz View Post
    Thanks NorBro and PeterC....we've been busy with end of year school reports here etc...but really need to make a decision now on this camera...just need to lock something in before budget is lost!

    So what would you buy in our shoes??

    My concern re: Canon is the picture quality......our current Canon XA30 versus our Canon DSLR is absolutely no comparison in image quality..the DSLR's destroy it in terms of PQ...Canon is soft..muddy..horrible...

    Here is comparison doc:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=680807511

    Thanks for any final thoughts...

    We just want to turn on the camera...point at target..press record...and have clean audio...with some basic focus and monitoring...
    You could get a 1" sensor camcorder.

    Last edited by Peter C.; 12-02-2021, 02:25 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • NorBro
    replied
    I don't know anything about those Sonys so I really can't offer any advice on them, but if you're going to get two cameras then I'd recommend getting the same model. It's not a guarantee they will match but will likely match more closely than two other models, even from a similar family.

    The Blackmagics have sliders, but do you really want to be monitoring your levels by touching your camera screen during production?

    Auto audio levels in camcorders usually work pretty good but aren't bulletproof.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mavoz
    replied
    Originally posted by NorBro View Post
    Any decision you're going to make is going to have some sort of conflict (besides using 32-bit float point recording which there is no clipping).

    In short, Blackmagics will provide you the best quality by far but will be the toughest to use as everything is manual. And you'll need to run a preamp or mixer with the Pockets and you can't easily control audio levels while you're recording with them. (Did you read what I mentioned about AF? It's unusable unless you're okay with the image pulsing in and out during your productions for a few seconds.)

    The Canon camcorders will have the audio control you're looking for (although not ideal) and have easier handling and AF, but the smaller sensors fall apart in any low-light and will overall have worse quality compared to mirrorless' like you've discovered.

    C200 would be an excellent choice but it's only worth it if you're shooting RAW (which would definitely be overkill).

    ___

    There is no easy decision here because you're asking for too much and the Japanese know better than to give us everything in one camera. You'll have to let go of something...XLRs, low-light, AF, IQ, etc...
    Thanks so much for this...

    what about those Sony cameras? ie.
    Sony PXW-Z150
    Sony PXW-Z90V

    talking with our tech here....we're actually starting to wonder if we push for 2 cameras...

    One more expensive general purpose...give us auto...audio monitoring etc...
    something like the Sony above...


    And then a BlackMagic for our backup...B Camera...

    I would have thought the audio monitoring wasn't terrible on the Black Magic? ie. it looks like it has clear levels...but maybe you have to touch the screen to adjust?

    Thanks!

    Leave a comment:


  • NorBro
    replied
    Any decision you're going to make is going to have some sort of conflict (besides using 32-bit float point recording which there is no clipping).

    In short, Blackmagics will provide you the best quality by far but will be the toughest to use as everything is manual. And you'll need to run a preamp or mixer with the Pockets and you can't easily control audio levels while you're recording with them. (Did you read what I mentioned about AF? It's unusable unless you're okay with the image pulsing in and out during your productions for a few seconds.)

    The Canon camcorders will have the audio control you're looking for (although not ideal) and have easier handling and AF, but the smaller sensors fall apart in any low-light and will overall have worse quality compared to mirrorless' like you've discovered.

    C200 would be an excellent choice but it's only worth it if you're shooting RAW (which would definitely be overkill).

    ___

    There is no easy decision here because you're asking for too much and the Japanese know better than to give us everything in one camera. You'll have to let go of something...XLRs, low-light, AF, IQ, etc...

    Leave a comment:


  • Mavoz
    replied
    Thanks NorBro and PeterC....we've been busy with end of year school reports here etc...but really need to make a decision now on this camera...just need to lock something in before budget is lost!

    So what would you buy in our shoes??


    Summary Requirements:

    To film stage events and mini productions.
    Must be easy/quick/simple..


    XLR inputs and easy monitoring of audio on camera. (A teacher recently used an existing cam...horrible clipping..blown out audio..wrecked)
    Clean HDMI Out
    1080P is fine...
    Good image...even in slightly dark conditions (Halls etc.)

    In this Doc I have thrown in the current choices I've found...

    But in short:

    Canon XA50 or XA 55 - $2950 to $3500 AUD - 2 x XLR...

    Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K 1 x XLR - $2500 - can use existing EF batteries + our EF lenses
    Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K Pro 2 x XLR ... $3140...existing EF lenses
    or maybe one of these Sony Cameras?
    Sony PXW-Z150
    Sony PXW-Z90V
    A Canon better than the XA55?

    We can probably go up to around $5000 Australian.


    What would you buy?


    My concern re: Canon is the picture quality......our current Canon XA30 versus our Canon DSLR is absolutely no comparison in image quality..the DSLR's destroy it in terms of PQ...Canon is soft..muddy..horrible...


    Here is comparison doc:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=680807511

    Thanks for any final thoughts...

    We just want to turn on the camera...point at target..press record...and have clean audio...with some basic focus and monitoring...
    Last edited by Mavoz; 12-01-2021, 04:05 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • NorBro
    replied
    That's one of the main ways people use them. But it doesn't matter if it's for high school or Hollywood.

    They are cameras that have features you can use with other equipment to capture any motion pictures you want to.

    Leave a comment:

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