Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

What camera solution + workflow for school recording?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #16
    Originally posted by paulears View Post

    Sorry - I should have said that DSLRs are rubbish at sound apart from the limited interconnects, lack of balanced and separate audio inputs, simple control of audio levels while recording.

    Perfectly fine for capturing sync audio - but the audio is so good most people just record it to other equipment. Noise levels are better now - but they are just the wrong form factor to do audio very well at all.
    As far as audio, there's nothing better than for a camera operator to not have to worry about it and let a professional handle it, but I actually always prefer to use DSLRs/mirrorless' when I need to record audio and/or control it.

    It's beyond easy these days, and IMO much easier than other cameras.

    You see...levels can be controlled by the back thumb wheel where your thumb naturally rests, and you can easily ride them while on a tripod or handheld. Personally, I find it more difficult to change levels on cinema camera audio control panels which are small and in an inconvenient position under a plastic cover or what not.

    Plus, when I'm using a preamp that sits under the DSLR/mirrorless, it has knobs so it's even easier at times (like on a tripod).

    So IMO, these cameras are actually the best form factor when controlling audio and operating at the same time.

    Comment


      #17
      I agree with Paul in a live event the audio to dsrl/mirrorless should be used primarily for syncing purposes. Ideally you should be using a camcorder or field audio mixer that keeps the board feed and ambient mic in separate channels, has limiters, phantom power, and physical dials. I prefer the mixpre which could be used in conjunction with a dslr. Often this type of work you need a more robust solution to deal with audio than a dslr provides.
      Last edited by Peter C.; 11-07-2021, 04:12 PM.

      Comment


        #18
        .Thanks all...appreciate all your advice..

        Wish we had the Mini Atem Extreme instead of the Pro..because the two USB C points would have let us stream and record simulaneously..


        Originally posted by Peter C. View Post
        I agree with Paul in a live event the audio to dsrl/mirrorless should be used primarily for syncing purposes. Ideally you should be using a camcorder or field audio mixer that keeps the board feed and ambient mic in separate channels, has limiters, phantom power, and physical dials. I prefer the mixpre which could be used in conjunction with a dslr. Often this type of work you need a more robust solution to deal with audio than a dslr provides.
        Totally agree with this too now...in my own work on the side I actually have the same combo Paul...Samsung NX1 + Mix Pre 6...love it...but for this kind of work we need an 'events A Camera'.

        Can anyone recommend a camera with these key features:

        1) XLR Audio inputs + Phantom
        2) Easy to use monitoring of this audio/headphone jack.....with clear easy to use physical volume controls and easy to read level meters.
        3) 1080p is fine + but better ability to record in low light
        4.) Clean HDMI out...
        5) Ideally under $2500 Australian

        We have one XLR input camera...a Canon XA10..but we find the mic dials really fiddly...and the audio meter levels are really small..not particularly clear for beginners/stuidents....

        Someone has recommended a Blackmagic camera...

        Anyone got any thoughts on specific models? Maybe the Blackmagic is the best choice? Will research..but certainly interested in your experience! Thanks!

        Comment


          #19
          You're not going to find many cameras with built-in audio knobs/dials that are enjoyable to use, if not impossible to use while you're operating the camera. These controls are to set them and forget them situations, not to ride gain as you may or may not move around with varying levels of dB.

          Besides the lower-end, camcorders are rarely used for this kind of stuff and it's mostly broadcast cameras or cinema cameras with ENG/EFP lenses and even with them it's a PITA for an operator to adjust levels.

          With that said, I already did recommend the G60 (has a 1" sensor for better low-light), which is a great camcorder for these kind of high school productions. Sony likely has a similar model.

          As far as Blackmagic, really depends on the camera. They vary greatly from 2012-2021 and you likely don't want to get the one with a max ISO of 400 (BMPC - URSA - URSA Mini 4K). Although I'm assuming one of the Pockets were recommended.

          Comment


            #20
            P.S. I said G60 above, but I meant the XA50 (which is pretty much the same camera but it has the XLR handle you'd need).

            Originally it sounded like you also wanted to improve your IQ a bit as well, but IMO you're just not going to do that with many camcorder options.

            People in your situation also consider cameras like the C100 (I or II) and FS5 (I or II).

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by NorBro View Post
              P.S. I said G60 above, but I meant the XA50 (which is pretty much the same camera but it has the XLR handle you'd need).

              Originally it sounded like you also wanted to improve your IQ a bit as well, but IMO you're just not going to do that with many camcorder options.

              People in your situation also consider cameras like the C100 (I or II) and FS5 (I or II).
              Thanks for this...we have the XA10...but just found the quality of image a fair way off the DSLR quality of the 80D's..but maybe they've improved that on the XA50...It is intersting how audio interfaces always seem such an overlooked feature by manufacturers compared to so much focus on every last pixel of video quality...I can see in the pro world...people just go dual audio...but there seems a real market for an all in one camera with both...

              I know very little about the Blackmagic cameras...would something like this do the job?

              https://www.storedj.com.au/blackmagi...QaApAgEALw_wcB

              Comment


                #22
                Camcorders have barely improved...they are better than what they were 5 years ago, but nothing compared to the advancement of mirrorless'.

                For audio (and for post projects), a lot of people moved over to 32-bit float and that's truly settable and forgettable since there is no clipping and you adjust everything in post (if you haven't heard of it, yes, it is as amazing as it sounds and one of the great creations in the industry).

                Doesn't matter which camera, just plop it on top of the recorder and off you go (but likely wouldn't work for your live purpose).

                The new 4K Studio Pro would work but there's no internal recording, so you'd have to make sure you dial in your external solution well.

                Its quality would be better than any fixed-lens camcorder on the market.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by NorBro View Post
                  Camcorders have barely improved...they are better than what they were 5 years ago, but nothing compared to the advancement of mirrorless'.

                  For audio (and for post projects), a lot of people moved over to 32-bit float and that's truly settable and forgettable since there is no clipping and you adjust everything in post (if you haven't heard of it, yes, it is as amazing as it sounds and one of the great creations in the industry).

                  Doesn't matter which camera, just plop it on top of the recorder and off you go (but likely wouldn't work for your live purpose).

                  The new 4K Studio Pro would work but there's no internal recording, so you'd have to make sure you dial in your external solution well.

                  Its quality would be better than any fixed-lens camcorder on the market.
                  Thanks for this,...it looks like the Blackmagic works with a USB C harddrive...be we probably still need something dual purpose...ie. that you could take out and about too...

                  What about a Panasonic GH5 with the Panasonic DMW-XLR1E XLR Adaptor?

                  Apparently there is no time limit on the recording part of this like on our Canon DSLRs?

                  I imagine the image quality is better than the XA50 Camcorder? Thanks!

                  Comment


                    #24
                    If you have older computers it might be an issue, but there are adapters for moving around...

                    Although the camera would record Blackmagic RAW...you know that, right?

                    ___

                    If you're now getting into mirorrless' then you have about 50 choices compared to like 5 for camcorders - so, yeah, a GH5 could work and many more, and the quality would be much better than the XA50. (Sonys have XLR adapters as well.)

                    There are no time constraints in a handful of options, but many still do have 30-minute limits.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Hey NorBro, your avatar is changing on a daily basis. What's up? It's freaking me out.
                      Doug Jensen, Sony camcorder instructor
                      HOW TO MAKE MONEY SHOOTING STOCK
                      http://www.dougjensen.com/

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Yeah, I'm running the beta auto-avatar feature on DVX...the AI is messing with me.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          I think I’m biased to be honest here. Pretty well 90% of my video work is in the studio, in theatres or at events, and DSLR format cameras have so many disadvantages for me, unless you fit them with so many accessories that they’re not really DSLRs any more. I know loads of people love them, but they just don’t work for me. I like TV type lenses, where focus and zoom work properly and there is proper socketry for whatever you need to do.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by paulears View Post
                            I think I’m biased to be honest here. Pretty well 90% of my video work is in the studio, in theatres or at events, and DSLR format cameras have so many disadvantages for me, unless you fit them with so many accessories that they’re not really DSLRs any more. I know loads of people love them, but they just don’t work for me. I like TV type lenses, where focus and zoom work properly and there is proper socketry for whatever you need to do.
                            Thanks Paul and NorBro...I think at the end of the day our school just needs to find a camera solution that can accept an XLR microphone...with a minimum of complexity..and can record for 60 minutes without turning off...we are already invested in the Canon EOS lens family...so it would make sense to get something compatible with that if we went interchangeable....but then it could just be standalone...the XA50 could be an option...all I know is today when I looked at the footage from our XA10 today it wasn't great at all...not very nice colours...my Pixel Smartphone is much better quality! That Blackmagic Raw sounds like it could be a problem then...we probably just need an edit friendly file format...thanks!

                            Comment


                              #29
                              The XA10 is ancient. It is so old as a camera that it's like a horse and buggy compared to other methods of traveling.

                              Being HD is not the problem; it's the way they made cameras back then; old sensor, no super-sampling, worse processing, low data rates, terrible in low-light, fixed glass was mediocre.

                              When you say your smartphone is much better it probably is!

                              You'll have to compromise because you won't be able to have it all unless more money is spent.

                              P.S. How many microphones are normally used and how?

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by NorBro View Post
                                The XA10 is ancient. It is so old as a camera that it's like a horse and buggy compared to other methods of traveling.

                                Being HD is not the problem; it's the way they made cameras back then; old sensor, no super-sampling, worse processing, low data rates, terrible in low-light, fixed glass was mediocre.

                                When you say your smartphone is much better it probably is!

                                You'll have to compromise because you won't be able to have it all unless more money is spent.

                                P.S. How many microphones are normally used and how?
                                Thanks...that no doubt explains it! Watched a video on the XA50...certainly has all the convenience features...there is also an XA40...and a Sony:
                                https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...camcorder.html

                                Typically with mics we actually only need one...it is used for interviews often..run and gun style..kids just pointing and shooting..interviewing each other..

                                ...but then two inputs in the concert/chapels context could be handy...one channel from the desk via Rode Wireless ...and one for an onboard shotgun for redundancy and room ambience...

                                One of these types of cams certainly looks like the solution!

                                The other thing I wouldn't mind is some cheap... clean HDMI out equipped 1080p camera for the Blackmagic Atem Min Pro....basically B and C cameras...these wouldn't need fancy audio....probably just onboard mics for Plural Eyes syncing if needed...

                                Thanks for all the tips!

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X